Newbie question in regards to Tavor purchase. Tavor Pro's please lend a hand.

[tavtastic]

Hopefully someone can give me a hand here. I've spent countless hours reading up about the gun and options, however I'm not aware of some lingo, and it's difficult to search for what I'm after.

I'm wanting a Tavor Tar-21, I'm just deciding if I get the one with flip up iron sights or without, Kelly's has them for 2300ish without sights or sling. I know many guy's say they wish they could have gotten it without the sights now.

For the scope, I'm told a eotech isn't suggested for varmint hunting as the red dot/reticle will generally block out the gopher or other small animals you're targeting. It's also not ideal for long range.

Are flip up rears good for a holographic sight? Does it help at all? Will I regret not getting the flip up sights in the future. How fun/accurate is an Eotech on the range? Plinking targets?

I was thinking, getting a cheaper Eotech for plinking and fun, and an actual scope when we go in the fields or for distance. Does this make sense? Is there one scope that is the best of both worlds without costing 2G's? I know good glass isn't cheap, however right off the bat, I can't rationalize that much right after getting the tavor. Plus the wife is only so gracious lol

I recall at cabellas, checking out another scope, instead of a red dot, it had a very crispy red arrow in the center, so you could still see your target, but also gave you some range.

Is there a certain max distance I should get for the Tavor? I know it's not a long range gun technically...that's fine I have my .308 for that.

I'm just new to the whole accessory thing, and hopefully some Tavor pro's could jump in and give me a hand.

My main plan is to get the Tavor, Timney trigger pack and the cheaper Eotech to start (Granted, I'd be willing to get the high end eotech XPS3-2 if you guys think its worthwhile, 900 isn't bad.)

My apologies if any of my questions come across as dumb, however I'd rather be dumb once by asking the questions, then dumb forever by never asking.

 

[mspben]

Hi,

Hopefully I can help. I would suggest looking for a 1-6x variable scope (I have a bushnell SMRS). You should be able to get something decent for $1k.

The tar-21 has back up sights built into the rail, so don't worry about whether it comes with extra flip up sights. The ones mine came with are in a box somewhere now. the integral back-ups are fine for my use.

I have only tried to shoot my tavor with a red dot out to distance once, but it was a real eye opener. I was switching between a rifle with a red dot and one with a 1-6x scope and it was so much easier with the scope. Not just because of the magnification, but also the mill reticle for hold overs. For sub 100m the eotech will be great for plinking (my opinion). Some people can do better apparently but I had a real hard time with it.

Personally I would try to by one used on here as I have seen them hovering around $2k, which is a steal. The tavor is a great rifle - enjoy it! Also, give the ergonomics some time. It took me a bit to warm up to it, but now I love it.

Ben

 

[tavtastic]

I appreciate the advice, thank you.

I'm not sure the base one from Kellys has any sights, I think it's just a bare rail. Do you ever use the flip ups? Or is this considered somewhat useless if I'm scoping it out?

I've applied for the EE, however I still don't have privileges to see anything unfortunately.

**Edit** I talked to Kelly's it still has the flip iron sights mounted in the middle of the rail.

 

[mikethebike]

so lots of questions...
Factory clamp on flip up sights are redundant as the tavor has built in flip up sights.

Eotechs are not really made for hunting although it will do just fine to 100 yards, the center dot of the eotech is 1moa, calculate accordingly, i suggest you put on a g33 magnifier if you are going to run an eotech. i have an acog on mine, it is more precise.

With very good ammo i was able to bring my tavor just slightly under 1.5 moa, those were my best groups, check out my tavor ammo review threads, again calculate avcordingly when hunting tiny gophers at distance

Distance, well depends on what you want to hit and where you want to hit it andhow good of a shot you are. Personally i wouldnt be hunting with my tavor past 200 yards. No way

Timney trigger sucks, it broke in half in my tavor, so did tvpp's timbey trigger. Stay away from that.

 

[rb_roadrace]

Tagged for info. I've been Tavor shopping recently too, but now there's that X95, which seems to have fixed the few things I didn't like about the TAR21. Hmmmmm...

 

[Luis1]

Ill try and add a bit to this too, I m still running a rectory trigger on my, but the actual trigger bow is replaced with a geisslle lightning bow. This replacement bow did wonders in improving the trigger on its own, trigger still remains heavy but is nice and crisp now and very predictable. I was using an eotech EXPS 3-2 for a while and as much as I wanted to like it, I liked it less and less everything I used it, I then started to get fading in the centre of the reticle and had enough eotech offered to fully refund my money and I took them up on it and bought a trijicon MRO instead, I am very happy with it now. Benching the tavor I was hitting a coyote shaped steel target out to 300 yards consistantly. Now this was also with my own handloads, so you may get different results. As for accuracy out to 100 I was getting roughly the same group size as mikethebike was. My MRO is zeroed for 50 yards, which also roughly zeroes out at 300 yards. I was also not using a magnifier for this either. If you have any other questions dude fire me off a pm, I'll try and help as much as I can.

 

[Master-G]

If you were dead set on using irons the clamp-on ones that come with some Tavors are a bit more useful than the integral flip-up rail ones--at least the ones I've had as they've got usable windage and elevation adjustments. But really the Tavor is meant to be used with some sort of optic and the rail-mount sights can be used as a backup if they're ever needed. As far as red dots go I would pass on the Eotech and go for something else--my preference for the low-end of top-quality red dot sights is the Aimpoint PRO.

 

[Random Letters]

Save the money. You'll likely never use the flips. And even if you do, you'll likely want a different set down the road.

They are also known as "back up iron sights" to use if your optic fails. Important if it is a defensive weapon. For punching holes at the range, an inconvenience at most.

I have a Vortex 1-6 on mine. I had an aimpoint for a time and those are fun. But I want magnification if I'm shooting out past 100 yards or intend to hunt with it.

 

[Lungorthin]

I also have a vortex 1-6x, I removed the flip up sights included since the Tavor rail already has flip up sights built in. Save some cash and buy the model that doesn't include them.

 

[tavtastic]

so lots of questions...
Factory clamp on flip up sights are redundant as the tavor has built in flip up sights.

Eotechs are not really made for hunting although it will do just fine to 100 yards, the center dot of the eotech is 1moa, calculate accordingly, i suggest you put on a g33 magnifier if you are going to run an eotech. i have an acog on mine, it is more precise.

With very good ammo i was able to bring my tavor just slightly under 1.5 moa, those were my best groups, check out my tavor ammo review threads, again calculate avcordingly when hunting tiny gophers at distance

Distance, well depends on what you want to hit and where you want to hit it andhow good of a shot you are. Personally i wouldnt be hunting with my tavor past 200 yards. No way

Timney trigger sucks, it broke in half in my tavor, so did tvpp's timbey trigger. Stay away from that.

I had no idea they had magnifiers for red dots or eotechs....Does the reticle stay small in the magnifier because it's a holograph or does it become larger? The versatility of having close and farther away is pretty tempting. Maybe a vortex magnifier instead of the Eotech.... I'll steer clear of the Timney and look into a Gisselle, thanks!

Tagged for info. I've been Tavor shopping recently too, but now there's that X95, which seems to have fixed the few things I didn't like about the TAR21. Hmmmmm...

That's the predicament I'm in, I won't lie...the fact the Tavor is made in Israel is pretty awesome, vs the new X95 being made in the states. I talked to Kelly's today, and Wes informed me the ones he has are the last he's getting in from Israel. The rest will be commercial models. I've never been with the AR platform, or really know anything about it, so the x95 doesn't really draw me in like others. I'm also not fond of hearing about accuracy issues with the x95 when it gets hot...Maybe it's not fully ironed out yet...Kelly's has 6 black and 2 Desert/tan left...in case you were interested.

Ill try and add a bit to this too, I m still running a rectory trigger on my, but the actual trigger bow is replaced with a geisslle lightning bow. This replacement bow did wonders in improving the trigger on its own, trigger still remains heavy but is nice and crisp now and very predictable. I was using an eotech EXPS 3-2 for a while and as much as I wanted to like it, I liked it less and less everything I used it, I then started to get fading in the centre of the reticle and had enough eotech offered to fully refund my money and I took them up on it and bought a trijicon MRO instead, I am very happy with it now. Benching the tavor I was hitting a coyote shaped steel target out to 300 yards consistantly. Now this was also with my own handloads, so you may get different results. As for accuracy out to 100 I was getting roughly the same group size as mikethebike was. My MRO is zeroed for 50 yards, which also roughly zeroes out at 300 yards. I was also not using a magnifier for this either. If you have any other questions dude fire me off a pm, I'll try and help as much as I can.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look into the MRO as well. When you got the lightning bow, did you get a gunsmith to put it in or did you do it yourself? I've also been looking at the Gisselle trigger pack.

If you were dead set on using irons the clamp-on ones that come with some Tavors are a bit more useful than the integral flip-up rail ones--at least the ones I've had as they've got usable windage and elevation adjustments. But really the Tavor is meant to be used with some sort of optic and the rail-mount sights can be used as a backup if they're ever needed. As far as red dots go I would pass on the Eotech and go for something else--my preference for the low-end of top-quality red dot sights is the Aimpoint PRO.

I'll check out the Aimpoint pro. Do you suggest a magnifier for this? Or does it just turn the red dot into a huge glob lol

Save the money. You'll likely never use the flips. And even if you do, you'll likely want a different set down the road.

They are also known as "back up iron sights" to use if your optic fails. Important if it is a defensive weapon. For punching holes at the range, an inconvenience at most.

I have a Vortex 1-6 on mine. I had an aimpoint for a time and those are fun. But I want magnification if I'm shooting out past 100 yards or intend to hunt with it.

I'll check out this Vortex 1-6, the flip up sights and sling are officially crossed off the list and not worthwhile. Thanks.

 

[Jarvy]

I'm just deciding if I get the one with flip up iron sights or without, Kelly's has them for 2300ish without sights or sling. I know many guy's say they wish they could have gotten it without the sights now

The first thing I did when I got my Tavor was sell the backup sights. The sights embedded inside the rail, while not amazing, do the job just fine.

I was thinking, getting a cheaper Eotech for plinking and fun, and an actual scope when we go in the fields or for distance. Does this make sense? Is there one scope that is the best of both worlds without costing 2G's? I know good glass isn't cheap, however right off the bat, I can't rationalize that much right after getting the tavor. Plus the wife is only so gracious lol

I think the Tavor really benefits from a Red Dot. I'm not sure if the Tavor is precise enough for small rodents at ranges beyond 100m, but it's certainly good enough for coyotes.

Is there a certain max distance I should get for the Tavor? I know it's not a long range gun technically...that's fine I have my .308 for that.

I think for plinking you'll be able to reliably hit your typical paper targets at 300 meters. I can ring a 12x12 gong at 200m, standing offhand, every time.

My main plan is to get the Tavor, Timney trigger pack and the cheaper Eotech to start

I'd say try the trigger first before you go out and buy an aftermarket one. I bought my Tavor used, and planned to use the savings to buy a Geissele. But I thought the stock trigger was perfectly fine and have no plans on replacing it.

I'd also say shop around for optics , especially if you're just going to use the red dot for plinking. The Mepro M5 takes AA batteries and has a battery life of about 7 months. Holosun (I think) is coming out with a sight that uses a reticle like the EOTech. Aimpoint has some affordable options that are indestructible and have a battery life measured in years.

 

[Master-G]

I'll check out the Aimpoint pro. Do you suggest a magnifier for this? Or does it just turn the red dot into a huge glob lol

I don't use a magnifier myself but I've shot a rifle with a 2MOA Aimpoint and a 3X magnifier and it was fine—the dot is magnified but so is everything else so the relative size stays the same—I liked it. Most of my Tavor (CTAR, now actually) is 100m and in so I'm OK without one. I've shot a 2MOA Aimpoint in a 300m competition and did well, but the targets were stationary and in known positions.

I've used ACOGs as well, not on the Tavor but on my FS2000—I like them a lot although they're not cheap, and some have very short eye relief. Ones like the TA33, though are wonderfully light and have great eye relief. I like to keep my short rifles as light as possible and tend to go with smaller, lightweight optics. I'm using a Meprolight M5 on my CTAR now and a Trijicon MRO on my FS2000.

I agree with Jarvy as well—the factory trigger is not bad, especially if you can find an older Tavor (Gen 2 or earlier I think?) that has the extra trigger return spring that many of us have removed to lower the pull weight.

 

[Nic3500]

..... deleted

 

[Luis1]

If you aren't that savy with taking firearms down past field stripping them, maybe get a gunsmith to do it as the barrel has to come off and you need special wrench to do it. I made my own out of a steel bolt and used a ratchet to remove it, not that hard to do for me.

 

[tavtastic]

If you aren't that savy with taking firearms down past field stripping them, maybe get a gunsmith to do it as the barrel has to come off and you need special wrench to do it. I made my own out of a steel bolt and used a ratchet to remove it, not that hard to do for me.

Yea I'm just curious as a few guys suggested a gunsmith as they've had to bring in new barrels for clients that were modding the trigger. I've never done it before, fairly new to modding guns, so I may have to lean on a gunsmith for help...

Granted, meeting with a gunsmith would be awesome, I can then learn alot. lol

 

[tavtastic]

Well, quick update.

I purchased a black Tavor Tar-21, should see it next week. I got the cheaper version without the flip ups and sling as advised.

Definitely psyched to try out the Hebrew Hammer lol More excited to learn from everyone on here.

Apparently some people complain that the Desert tan or w/e appears greasy or dirty, so I figured nothing is better in black then guns and cars lol

I'll hold off on anything with the trigger for now as suggested. A friend of mine said, get some time in with just the iron sights before stepping into tricking it out. Enjoy the gun as it is, then make the adjustments.

I'm sure many here will agree with that advice, in regards to a guy whos new to mods getting a Tavor. I'm sure If I had a collection of guns like guys on here this would be modded out the day it landed lol

If anyone ends up reading this thread, as of now Kelly's who has 4 or 5 black and 2 desert tans left will not be getting anymore Israeli spec Tavors. From now on the rest will be commercial models, I'm assuming built in the US at the same plant that is building the new X95. Unless they eventually just discontinue the Tar-21 due to X95 success. Though, I'm not sure this would ever happen....The Tavor is a raging success with many army's now.

 

[Nic3500]

You can get some info on Tavor on www.ltwerner.com

I got the Sabra trigger pack with the Lightning Bow and it completely transformed the TAR. I just love it now, the original trigger was much worst!

 

[sugeknowles]

I run a replacement Timney trigger pack in my TAR21 with a MWI extended keymod foregrip and an Elcan Specter DR 1-4x optic. Changing the trigger pack is a must in my opinion, the factory trigger is really heavy. The MWI foregrip is nice in that if you want to put a rail on it and shoot from a bipod you can, and it feels good holding it and looks IMHO better than the factory grip. Not that looks affect the performance of the firearm. Now from an optic standpoint, I used to run an Aimpoint Micro H1 on the Tavor with a 3x flip away magnifier, and upgraded to the Elcan Specter DR. The Elcan certainly isn't an inexpensive choice but man is it an incredible optic. The Tavor is a very accurate platform with this sight and if you can afford it I highly recommend it.

 

[XRAYGUY]

I've posted this before, but this is how I set up my Tavor...

•Gearhead Works TMF
•Gearhead Works FLEx Swivel
•FAB Defence Vertical Foregrip
•Manticore Luma Safety - thin & medium
•Fenix PD35 w/ Tactical Remote Pressure Switch
•Geiselle Super Sabra Trigger Pack
•Geissele Lightning Bow
•EOTech EXPS3
•EOTech G33 Magnifier
•Mesa Tactical 870 QD Mount
•Pelican 1700 Tan

 

[Master-G]

I purchased a black Tavor Tar-21, should see it next week. I got the cheaper version without the flip ups and sling as advised. A friend of mine said, get some time in with just the iron sights before stepping into tricking it out. Enjoy the gun as it is, then make the adjustments.

Nice—congratulations! You'll see this when your shows up, but the rail-integral sights are really rudimentary—there's no windage or elevation adjustment and only one aperture size. You want want to wait too long before getting an optic on there . If you're looking to not spend a bunch of cash I've had good luck with the two Holosun sights I've owned.