newbie reloading questions

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tlucyk

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I am going to start rolling my own .308 ammo for my norc M305b
I am a total newbie here and probably have no idea what I'm talking about but here are my thoughts. Advice and flaming welcome.

I currently shoot norinco 145gr 7.62 x 51 copper washed with excellent results up to 400m. At 500m for some reason I usually miss the gong at my range.

I would like to:
roll my own for the same cost or cheaper than the copper washed ammo I normally use. Minding the fact I can possibly reload the same brass 3 times

produce better results out to 600m

I have:
an RCBS rock chucker kit
Approx 200 mixed once fired brass
Approx 1000 berdan copper washed cases
200 Hornady HPBT 168 match bullets
IMR 4895
CCI large rifle primers
Berdan large rifle primers

I am considering buying a few hundred once fired Norma brass for $30/50 from tradeexcanada
Should I bother with the mixed brass I have?
I can de prime my berdan cases quite easily
Has anyone had any success reloading berdan cases?
I was thinking of reloading them once then tossing.

I don't know what reloading manual to get
 
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Before you think about anything else go get some manuals..... LEE, Hornady, Nosler, ABC'S of reloading and have a good read...
Enjoy your new hobby.
 
Honestly, chuck the Copper washed berden primed cases. .308 is a common enough caliber that their is no real benefit to reloading Berden. Also, they are copper washed steel and steel does not reload very well.

The 200 mixed pieces you have I imagine is brass case boxxer primed? Its still good, just sort it out by headstamp.

If you can find deals on brass, pick it up. Its better to have a good supply of brass sitting on your shelf, then find yourself short later down the road.

As for manuals, pick up at least two so you have a good amount of data. I have the Hornady one and its alright, although obviously it tends to only list Hornady Bullets. I have heard good things about the Lymann Manuel and since they don't make bullets they tend to be non-bias, I plan on picking it up for myself as well.
 
tlucyk said:
I would like to:
roll my own for the same cost or cheaper than the copper washed ammo I normally use....


I have...200 Hornady HPBT 168 match bullets
Click to expand...

How much are you paying for the loaded ammo, and how much for those bullets?

Chuck the steel cases. You should be able to get at least a half dozen loadings out of your brass cases. I've had over 15 on occasion.
 
I took your advice an chucked the steel cases. Thanks for the advice.
--BattleRifle: I pay almost 500 per 1000 rounds for the copper washed.
You say I could get 6 loads out of a case? That seems like a lot.

Instead or the Norma brass I'm going to go with 1400 hand picked once fired LC brass. I figure that will suit my needs an last me a very long time. I go through about 2000 rounds a year.
Anyone have experience with this brass?
 
tlucyk said:
I took your advice an chucked the steel cases. Thanks for the advice.
--BattleRifle: I pay almost 500 per 1000 rounds for the copper washed.
You say I could get 6 loads out of a case? That seems like a lot.

Instead or the Norma brass I'm going to go with 1400 hand picked once fired LC brass. I figure that will suit my needs an last me a very long time. I go through about 2000 rounds a year.
Anyone have experience with this brass?
Click to expand...

A buddy of mine only uses LC brass in his m25. He loads 168 gr. Apparently it shoots really well. He was saying after the 3rd reload the accuracy was falling off, but from the velocities he told me he was getting, they were fairly warm loads. from what I understand the LC brass is mil spec? So the cases are thicker, thus you'll likely use less powder. A good way to figure it out would be to do the water volume tests to make sure to compare with other brass. mil spec brass is both good and bad that way. For example, I have to use a whole grain less of powder for mil spec brass when i reload.

I use a speer manual with various loading data that i begged for from manufacturers. berger was awesome when I asked for load data. If given the opportunity, i would have gone with a sierra or berger manual right off the bat.
I suggest checking out ammosmith.com for additional reference material.
 
yomomma said:
Very important with the M305

Make sure primers sit deeper than flush. Get a pocket uniforming tool if you have to.

****READ UP ON RELOADING ESPECIALLY FOR M14/M1A/M305****
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Good advice above by yomomma.

Below is the milspec requirements for 7.62 NATO case and chamber, please note the primer is to be .008 below flush.

m14chamber_zps93174da1.jpg
 
Chuck the Berdan cases.

BUY the LC brass!! Get all you can. This is good quality military brass and well suite to the M305. If it is all once -fired, sort it by date stamp.

When looking at load data in a manual, remember that military brass is heavier and must be loaded 2 grains lighter. 39 to 40gr of 4895 and the 168 should be about right. That is not a hot load, so brass should last about 10 shots.
 
tlucyk said:
Is this where I would measure the datum on a fired case with the gas valve turned off? Then set the die back .001 or .002 from that?
Click to expand...

Tlucyk - Get yourself a case length gauge so that you can resize your cases to SAAMI specs to start. I resize all brass that is going in my M305 to standard length. When you get more experience you may want to try neck bumping your fired cases. Personally, I did not find any improvement in accuracy from doing this and I get a sufficient number of reloads from my brass already...why take risk.

I would not start sizing based on measured headspace. There is risk of having brass that is too long to achieve bolt lock. I strongly suggest that you reload to SAAMI spec on your first reloads.
 
With norc headspace being as much as + .017 over go guage, your brass will wear out pretty fast.

If you're new to reloading stick to full length resizing.

You can still send me your brass to measure.
 
Many shooters find that things begin to go south when they shoot at 500 yards. First off, you can't expect a rack gun to shoot like an M-21, but 2 MOA groups at 500 should be doable.

Mixed brass is not a recipe for fine accuracy, and the Berdan brass is worthless. Concern yourself only with boxer primed brass, and be vigilant for signs of cracking at the web and case mouth. When cracks are observed, the case must be culled, as must any case which has no felt resistance to seating the primer, regardless of its condition otherwise. Sort the brass first by manufacture, then by the number of firings, then after its cleaned, sized, primer pockets and flash hole uniformed, trimmed to length, and chamfered, sort it by weight, so that each group you shoot has brass of similar weight. If you were shooting a bolt gun, I'd suggest you anneal the necks, but, I'm not sure that it would provide you with much advantage in a gas gun, and it might even lead to problems if the necks are too soft.

The next step is choosing components. Shooting at 500 yards requires an accurate bullet; both Sierra MKs and Hornady A-MAXs are good choices, and reasonably priced. I found that Hornady's older BTHP Match out shot the Sierra MKs in my .308 and .30/06 rifles. Keeping your rifle's 1:12 twist in mind, ensure your bullet weights do not exceed 180 grs. Powder selection is critical, and powders that are too slow burning can lead to problems with the M-14 gas system. The traditional powders for the 7.62X51 were IMR or H 4895 and IMR 4064, but M-14 shooters are also reporting good results with Varget. I'd be inclined to use CCI primers, their military primers (M-34 for Large Rifle) if you can find them, but even their standard Large Rifle primers have thicker cups and are better at resisting slam fires than other brands. Some reloading manuals have specific sections on loading for military service rifles, and this consideration puts the easily found Sierra and Hornady manuals on your "should have" list.

Once you've loaded some ammo, shoot it at 100 to see how it groups. If the results are within 1.5 MOA, move out to 300. Once you are shooting acceptable groups at 300 move out to 500. It might be worth your while to purchase a box or two of factory match ammo, to provide you with an accuracy baseline for your rifle. That might prevent you from becoming discouraged by unreasonable expectations from your handloads. If your handloads shoot with the factory match ammo, you don't have much to complain about.
 
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I appreciate you're responses. Thank you.

--yomomma: I will send you some spent cases. I was going to measure the fired case with my hornady headspace gauge. Do you have a better or more accurate method? Just curious.

I will just size the nek to SAAMI for now. Should I do the same for bullet seating depth. Is there anything to gain by setting the overall length to just fit in the magazine with an m14 in youre experience?
 
I noticed you didn't list an RCBS Berdan primer remover(that isn't cheap. $61.99 Stateside) for the Berdan primed cases you can't reload. Steel cases are not reloadable. Make drawer pulls out of some and pitch the rest.
Berdan primers are not made like Boxer primers in Large and Small Rifle either. You need the right size.
Loading for an M305 is no different than loading for any semi-auto. You check the case lengths and trim, chamfer and deburr as required, must FL resize every time, (Either with a regular FL or a Small Base die.) and watch the OAL. Other than that loading for a semi-auto is no different than loading for a bolt action. It will not be heaper than low end Norinco ammo. You will have much better accuracy once you have properly worked up the load. No picking a load and hoping.
Try the IMR4895, but you may want to look into IMR4064 if you plan on using match grade bullets. It's more consistently accurate. And the cartridge and that bullet love it.
How long a cases lasts depends entirely in the load used and to some degree the brand of brass(Federal is softer than other makes and doesn't last as long. Your Norma is expensive, but good stuff) Three times is too few for any brand though. When the primers are really easy to put in or you start getting a lot of cracked case mouths, the case is done. Be way more than 3 times though.
Headspace doesn't get measured. It gets checked and cases do not have headspace. The sizer dies, when set up properly, will do everything you need to worry about anyway.
 
I use the HS guage with a home made version of this

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/ammunition_sinclair_bump_gauge_inserts_031411/

Load to mil spec first and see how it shoots. This will give you a base line. Then change the variables one at a time.

There is no magic bullet. You will need to put in your time and effort.


tlucyk said:
I appreciate you're responses. Thank you.

--yomomma: I will send you some spent cases. I was going to measure the fired case with my hornady headspace gauge. Do you have a better or more accurate method? Just curious.

I will just size the nek to SAAMI for now. Should I do the same for bullet seating depth. Is there anything to gain by setting the overall length to just fit in the magazine with an m14 in youre experience?
Click to expand...
 
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