Newbie reloading

ser65

ser65

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I know this has probably been asked many times. I have tried archives but still not getting what I am looking for. M wife and I both hunt and shoot. We both have 20 gauge shot guns. I have 270 and 303(plus dies). I know I have to get two presses one for the shot gun and one for the brassies. What is a good dependable reloading kit(s) to purchase as we want to do our own reloading. Also is it easier to buy the components separately? should we stick with basic reloading kit or would we get more out of the progressive? We do not shoot a lot but we do save our casings. What do we need to be aware of as in legal issues and is there more components to purchase out side of the kits?

I know a million questions. Also to note we depend on our ammo and tools to get the job done. It is not good to be out hunting and the bullets do not shoot properly.

Thank you
Steve
 
As for shotgun if you don't shoot alot the Lee loadall is fine.. I find that it does'nt really pay for shotgun.. But I do because of black powder shooting..
Rifle I'm a RCBS guy others make good kits also.. Single stage is fine don't need progressive... Loading is a learning curve make sure you read the manual it will explain the process..
Leroy
 
Steve - I can't give you any hints on the shotshell reloading. Don't think this is economical at this time due to cost of shot and difficulty finding shotgun powders (although this last might be easing a bit).

Regarding rifle reloading, you don't need a progressive press (unless you reload for pistol) and it would not provide any benefit for loading 303 and 270 since you'd run it in single-stage mode for those calibres. I would buy a single stage press and get the components individually but that is just me (allows you to choose the specific items that best fit your needs e.g. scale, powder measure, trimming gear, etc.) and I've been reloading enough to know what I want. The RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Master kit and the Hornady Lock-N-Load Classic kit seem to have the basics needed to start reloading and they are good base on which to build your reloading gear. Of the two I'd go with the Hornady kit since you get more for your money and it is more complete.

Outside of the Hornady kit (which again has more of the needed items than the RCBS kit), you will still need components (projectiles, powder and primers) and I always suggest getting a case gauge for each caliber (used to check case size) especially if the ammo is going to be used in a semi-auto rifle. None of the kits include gear for trimming your brass. If you have a drill-press, the Lee trimming gear is the most economical and in my experience does a fine job for most applications (except perhaps for long distance precision).

In term of legalities, make yourself aware of the explosive storage regulations (non-ferrous container for explosives, primers separated from powder, container clearly marked to contain explosives). You will need to show your PAL to buy powder.

Other than that, manuals and online videos can help get you up to speed on the reloading process. The basics for safe ammo are not difficult and accuracy is likely to be better than commercial from the start. The quest for improved ammo is a long-term journey and most of us are still learning.

Hope you and your wife jump-in with both feet.
 
I will give you my opinion which may or may not be the same as others.
I started reloading in the spring of 2011 when I started shooting.
I purchased a Lee 50th Aniversary Kit, which primes on the press and a few sets of Lee Dies.
Since then I have purchased a Hornady LnL AP Progressive press with case and bullet feeder.
I also purchased a used Hornady LnL Classic kit from somebody who was getting out of reloading.

I actually prefer the Lee press to the Hornady because I run the Lee with my left hand while feeding components with my right hand. The Hornady is run with the right hand while the components are fed with the left.

For the budget minded the Lee Anniversary kit or the Challenger kit with the hand primer are a great value and make accurate ammo.
I am not a fan of the Hornady single stage kit especially for $500.00.
The press feels sloppy, the scale is crap, and the hand primer is not as good as the Lee. It's only saving grace is that the powder measure is very good.
I would look at the RCBS Rockchucker, Lee Classic Cast, and my personal preference the Forster Co-Ax.
 
I'm a big fan of the Lee Classic Cast. Very fast to change calibers because you don't need to readjust the dies. Once the dies are adjusted, they stay in the removable turret. Just put in turret with our next caliber, and your ready to go. Light years ahead of a single stage, and quite a bit simpler than a progressive.
 
I recently started reloading (September this year), I bought the Lee 50th anni kit. It came with everything you need minus the cutter guide and dies. I still use every piece other than the chamfer/deburr tool. I also picked up a powder trickler, ss pin tumbler, cutter guide, and Lee 4 die kit. I have been able to achieve 0.340" 5 round group at 100m with ammo made from the 50th anniversary kit. I spent more $$ on the damn SS tumbler than I did on my entire reloading setup. I can throw together 100 308 win match rounds, weighing each load on beam scale, and already dry in under 4 hours. So after depriming and SS tumbling I dry, then all in one sitting size/prime everything, then in another sitting weigh out the powder (each load) and seat the bullets. I load up during the week, for the weekend fun. I've done the math, and even at my salary (if I paid myself) I still am saving approx $0.13(if not, $1.13) per round by reloading. It really gets annoying sometimes, but boy is ever hitting sub moa groups on a factory 5r worth the effort and getting twice as much trigger time.

Only thing I want to get next, is a RCBS Chargemaster and redding competition micrometer seating die. Which both cost much much more than the entire 50th anni kit from Lee. Cabela's is having free shipping on $99+ orders, so 149.99 + tax is what I had paid for the kit.
 
Pr589 said:
In term of legalities, make yourself aware of the explosive storage regulations (non-ferrous container for explosives, primers separated from powder, container clearly marked to contain explosives).
Click to expand...

The ones stated are outdated and no longer apply.
They changed about 2 years ago and there are numerous discussions on this forum with details.
 
awront said:
The ones stated are outdated and no longer apply.
They changed about 2 years ago and there are numerous discussions on this forum with details.
Click to expand...

Please explain how the rules I mentioned no longer apply. The changes resulting from the 2013 update to the Explosives Regulations (see http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/13975#part14) are as below:


  • small arms cartridges defined as up to 19.1 millimetres (.75 calibre) compared to previous 12.7 millimetre (.50 calibre) to harmonize with the United Nations Transport of Dangerous Goods definition;
  • the differentiation of small arms cartridges containing black powder is removed;
  • the quantity of black powder permitted in a detached dwelling is increased to 10 kilograms (consistent with the previous Regulations);
  • the wording on tracer and armour-piercing projectiles is removed, tracer ammunition can now be considered for authorization and commercial sales, provided that it is proven safe for use based on test results;
  • notes added to clarify that the maximum quantity of small arms cartridges refers to 225 kilograms net quantity;
  • clarification that the maximum permitted unlicensed storage of powder in all detached storage units is 75 kilograms at a site, not including the quantity that may be stored in a dwelling; and
  • clarification that secure storage means that persons not authorized are not given unlimited access to small arms cartridges storage areas.

As I see it, there are no changes to the specific guidance I mentioned. If there are I'd appreciate the details.
 
Fargone4sure said:
I'm a big fan of the Lee Classic Cast. Very fast to change calibers because you don't need to readjust the dies. Once the dies are adjusted, they stay in the removable turret. Just put in turret with our next caliber, and your ready to go. Light years ahead of a single stage, and quite a bit simpler than a progressive.
Click to expand...

I think you mean the Classic Turret which is different than the single stage Classic Cast. And I do agree that the Classic Turret is a very good, solid, press and reasonably priced.
 
I want to thank you all for your time in responding to my questions which get asked all the time. I know it can be monotonous but you have all helped me and my wife tremendously. it is greatly appreciated. For what we shoot I think the lee load all ll is the way to go. we do not shoot more than a few boxes of shot shells. The 270 and 303 I have saved the brass as I do want to reload and I shoot the 270 and the 303 more. As all of you have mentioned there are many reloaders RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and a few others, I will have to look at what is best bang for the buck. I like the idea of the kits but reading reviews on some of the kits the components are not the greatest to use. Also the idea of getting components is better it will cost more obviously. Over time and if things change we will see if we need to upgrade to better faster reloading or just stick with the basics that allows us good ammo and some savings.

Thank you everyone this has helped us and we will decide what to get in the next while. If you have any other suggestions feel free to comment.
 
If you are planning on buying them in pieces, look on the EE as well
I pieced together my first kit on EE and it was quite a bit cheaper as nice RCBS beam scales go for ~$60 at times when they are $180 new and they work just as well
I went with the LEE turret press as my first press, and eventually moved to the Hornady LnL AP but I wish I didn't sell my LEE turret as it still would of been useful
 
ser65 said:
I want to thank you all for your time in responding to my questions which get asked all the time. I know it can be monotonous but you have all helped me and my wife tremendously. it is greatly appreciated. For what we shoot I think the lee load all ll is the way to go. we do not shoot more than a few boxes of shot shells. The 270 and 303 I have saved the brass as I do want to reload and I shoot the 270 and the 303 more. As all of you have mentioned there are many reloaders RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and a few others, I will have to look at what is best bang for the buck. I like the idea of the kits but reading reviews on some of the kits the components are not the greatest to use. Also the idea of getting components is better it will cost more obviously. Over time and if things change we will see if we need to upgrade to better faster reloading or just stick with the basics that allows us good ammo and some savings.

Thank you everyone this has helped us and we will decide what to get in the next while. If you have any other suggestions feel free to comment.
Click to expand...

I bought the Lee Classic turret press kit and have since added some extra turrets, trimming tools as well as more dies. And have 1 turret dedicated for decapping and primer pocket swaging.
Since the Autodisc powder measure doesn't have enough capacity for .308, I picked up a Lee Perfect Powder measure but haven't used it yet.

So far I've only loaded a couple of hundred .308 rounds and based on the results from the first 100 or so, I've narrowed down the loads for the next 100 that are waiting until I can get out to some distance.
Meantime, the same press has loaded 4000+ .44mag (huge savings, even with the occasional gun failure) and about 1500 9mm.

Like others have said, the convenience of being able to quickly swap out a turret that has all the dies set up is a big plus. Some things about the Lee stuff like the primer feeders seem cheesy and cheap but with a little masking tape (literally), they've been working great. Most of the time I can load an entire package (100) of primers without a hitch.

I honestly don't know if spending more gets any better results. I look at the nifty micrometer adjustable dies and the like but by measuring my rounds and tweaking adjustments, I dunno.
If the specs call for an OAL of 2.775" and my rounds come out at 2.775" then what's the advantage? If I ever get good enough some day to notice the difference and decide to buy more expensive equipment it still will have been worth it as the Lee has already paid for itself many times over and will still have some resale value.

Instead of a tumbler, I use a 6.5L ultrasonic cleaner that I got off of Amazon.ca and it comes in handy for cleaning other things too.

To each their own but what I learned in my career as a mechanic is that it isn't the quality of the tool that makes for good results, it's the skill of the tool user. Some of the worst guys I ever knew had the biggest fanciest tool boxes while others with beat up little kits could work miracles.

No matter what brand or type of equipment you end up with, buy some decent accurate measuring tools. Claims, anecdotes, testimonials are fine and all but nothing says "it's right" like verifiable repeatable information.
 
Is there a reason your going towards a turret press? If all your Loading is rifle rounds might as well save 200 to be spent on other tools like a digital scale, and get the Lee 50th anni kit (single stage).
The Hornady kit is a single stage, not really the same thing.
 
Pr589 said:
Please explain how the rules I mentioned no longer apply.
Click to expand...

Pr589 said:
In term of legalities, make yourself aware of the explosive storage regulations (non-ferrous container for explosives, primers separated from powder, container clearly marked to contain explosives).
Click to expand...

"non-ferrous container for explosives"
I assume you are referring to the old requirement of a wooden box.
No longer required and there is no mention of type of container now, except "original packaging".

"primers separated from powder" - Not in a dwelling, but it is required in a storage unit (which isn't the cabinet in your house).

"container clearly marked to contain explosives" - Not required in a dwelling. In a storage unit, there is a "fire hazard sign" requirement.
Except, you could say that 305, 2c fits what you said, but I don't believe what you meant.
If they have to be in original packaging, then of course it will be labelled. There is no additional requirement for your own labels.

The relevant current dwelling requirements are:

281. (1) When small arms cartridges
are stored in a dwelling, they must be
stored away from flammable substances
and sources of ignition. People not authorized
by the user must not be given unlimited
access to the cartridges.


299. (1) Percussion caps must be stored
in their original packaging.
Note: These Regulations do not limit the
number of percussion caps that may be
stored in their original packaging in a
dwelling or a *storage unit.

(2) Smokeless powder must be stored in
its original container or in small arms cartridges.

(3) Black powder must be stored in its
original container, in small arms cartridges
or in black powder cartouches.

304. (1) When propellant powder, percussion
caps or black power cartouches are
stored in a dwelling, they must be stored
away from flammable substances and
sources of ignition. People not authorized
by the user must not be given unlimited access
to the propellant powder, percussion
caps or black powder cartouches.

305. (2) A person who manufactures small
arms cartridges or black powder cartouches
must ensure that the following requirements
are met:
(c) all containers of explosives must be
labelled to identify their contents and
must be kept closed when not in use;
 
I am looking at all options. I am very green at this never done reloading at all. I like the hornady as it gives everything I need just about same with the Lee Kit. Just want the best bang for the buck that's all. This is why I ask many questions and throw out ideas. It is yours and every one else response that has the experience and I don't want to get something I really do not need. This I thank you all.
 
I think you will quickly find that no one company makes the full range of reloading gear that is as good as you may want. And there is a lot of stuff that looks great but really doesn't work for the intended task.

I started with a kit and quickly got rid of a bunch of stuff. Now, I suggest to customers to buy good stuff from whichever company makes the good stuff and save money and headache up front.

And there is plenty of "better" stuff that actually costs the least.

There are many ways to get to the same destination.... so plan out your goals, long term and short term.. and most importantly budget.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
I have to agree that likely as not you're better off with buying the separate stuff.

Case in point. Many of the kits I've seen still come with a beam balance. Old eyes and backs will find these hard to gauge when the measure is spot on and dislike the need to bend over so they are looking straight on at the beam indicator needle to avoid parallax errors. A digital scale with big numbers and a backlight is just way easier.

For low production numbers you don't need one of the fancy hoppers that doles out the powder. Especially if you're going to use a trickler and scale for each charge. A Lee dipper set will do just fine and costs a lot less than the stand alone rotating or sliding style powder measures. It's less fast but if you're not loading gobs of ammo per month then a few minutes extra means little. Hell, if you're at all handy with some basic shop tools you can make your own powder dippers by soldering some handles made from heavy gauge copper wire to old brass casings. The casings can be cut down to remove the shoulder if they are bottleneck cases. The amount you cut them down sets the volume.

One thing that I found gets old fast is constantly checking the dies when using a single stage press. On too many dies the locking ring or locking nut moves far too easily to make them suitable for repeated use with any degree of trust. And using a round to check each time you swap dies introduces a lot of wasted time and the risk of ruining that one round. So I'm a big fan of using separate die plates for each die set if you have a turret press or using the Hornady press with the bayonet bushings or using the far better Hornady lock rings so that the dies can be screwed in and snugged with trust that things have not moved.

As a result I opted for replacing my warped Lee single stage with a Hornady LnL. The bayonet bushing setup used by Hornady makes for fast and trusted die swaps. Pretty well as fast as indexing between positions on a turret press. But with the good locking rings you're only adding a few seconds to each die change if you opt for a screw in press. I have not used the Lee breechlock setup but that would be another trust worthy quick change setup worth considering. Mind you the good Hornady lock rings with a screw in press is the cheapest option. But you're only talking about a couple of calibers. So..... your choice.

If you opt for a screw in press I would strongly recommend the Hornady lock rings to replace anyone else's rings or nuts. The pinch grip design of the Hornady ring ensures a well aligned and tight grip so the locking ring won't shift and it stays accurately positioned with the center axis of the die. Any Lee, RCBS or other brand of press owner should buy a bucket load of these rings to use with their dies. The Lee O ring nuts are a joke and the nuts with set screws are a very poor second best to the split ring with clamping screw used by Hornady.

With any shotgun gauge other than 12Ga the boxes of shells cost a lot. But you need to be shooting a pretty fair amount of ammo to justify reloading your own. If you're only shooting a few boxes a year for bird hunting I think I'd just not bother. If you're shooting a lot more then by all means dive on in.

The same goes for rifle. For hunters that might shoot one or two boxes a year for sighting in then hunting it just doesn't pay. But if you're shooting regularly for fun then a modest cost setup pays for itself in next to no time at all. The trick being to keep it modest. For me that means starting out with basics and only add or switch things as I find a need.

From the sounds of it you won't be reloading more than a few hundred rifle rounds a year. For that quantity you don't need much of any of the time saving devices. Just the stuff that ensures good repeated results. To me that suggests the following;

  • Single stage or non indexing turret press
  • Die set for each caliber AND a new turret plate, bayonet bushings or the Hornady lock rings.
  • A loading block to hold the cases nice and stable while working through the successive operations.
  • hand priming tool set
  • dippers for measuring powder
  • trickler and scale for weighing the charges
  • case trimmer for sizing bottle neck cases
  • Universal decapping die so you can decap before cleaning without sizing to avoid any grit in the sizing die.
  • Set of calipers for measuring OAL and other things. Lots of folks go with digital these days. But the cheap ones eat batteries like nuts. So I suggest a dial caliper since it's still easy to read and old guy eyes friendly without letting you down when the battery is dead AGAIN!

For cleaning I tried a tumbler and didn't find that it did any sort of job on the insides of the rifle casings. Based on an internet search I took a gamble on an ultrasonic cleaner. It worked so well I gave away my tumbler without a single regret. For rifle brass I de-cap first in the universal decapper then clean in the US with a mix of 1 part cheap white vinegar to 3 parts water with a small dash of liquid laundry detergent. The insides come out looking as shiny as the outside and the brass looks like it's new never fired stuff. AND I don't need to fuss around poking media out of the flash holes. And these days small US cleaners are CHEAP! So that's what I'd suggest.

The reason I use a universal decapper die instead of the sizing die is because I don't want to drag any fouling and grit on the dirty brass through the sizer. But I want to decap first so the primer pockets can be cleaned as well.
 
ser65 said:
I am looking at all options. I am very green at this never done reloading at all. I like the hornady as it gives everything I need just about same with the Lee Kit. Just want the best bang for the buck that's all. This is why I ask many questions and throw out ideas. It is yours and every one else response that has the experience and I don't want to get something I really do not need. This I thank you all.
Click to expand...

Your cheapest way to get started would be the Lee 50th Anniversary kit. 150$ gets you started with everything you need, heck I loaded 50 rounds last night (weighing each one on the beam scale, ladder test in 0.1gr increments) in 64 minutes (timed myself), but all the shells were sized and primed. Going with the lee kit you aren't spending couple hundred and realize that you DO NOT want to reload anymore.
I would also get a powder trickler (under 30$), some sort of way to clean the brass (I prefer stainless pin wet tumbling), the trimmer guide/shell holder (under 10$), and dies (60$ for 4 die set from lee). Oh and a bullet puller, I'd suggest a collet style ($30+$15 per caliber collet) but with how little rounds you'll be reloading a kinetic puller would be enough (plastic hammer style) (under 30$).
If you decide that you want to start reloading for pistols or just plinking then a turret press is the way to go, but since you are just loading for hunting a single stage is plenty.

This is the kit I bought.
http://www.cabelas.ca/product/3534/lee-50th-anniversary-reloader-kit (free shipping when using the code 99SHIPFREE).
 
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