unnervingfalcon
New member
- Location
- Warkworth, Ontario
I'm looking to get into target shooting. What type of gun on a budget do you recommend? Why is .308 used in many target rifles? Doesn't a smaller caliber go faster for better accuracy?
Newbie....What do you recommend?
- Thread starter unnervingfalcon
- Start date
shotgunjoe
CGN Regular
- Location
- winnipeg mb
What type of target shooting? Long range, bench, informal, tactical? Are you on a budget? A little more information will help with suggestions.
Small, very fast rounds usually burn out barrels quicker and don't have that wide of a selection of high B.C. bullets. Speed isn't really a necessity for precision. There are quite a few high bc bullets for the .224 cal shooters but they arent meant for breakneck speeds. Speaking for myself, I develop a load for accuracy far before I even consider speed. I personally shoot a 260 rem and the loads are around the 2700 to 2800 feet per second mark. They shoot very well.
That being said, the 308 is extremely easy to find bullets and brass for. There are a lot of factory ammo choices for those who don't reload. What kind of target shooting are you interested in?? F-class, bench rest, silhouette, etc?? Choose a discipline and we can help you out a little better.
That being said, the 308 is extremely easy to find bullets and brass for. There are a lot of factory ammo choices for those who don't reload. What kind of target shooting are you interested in?? F-class, bench rest, silhouette, etc?? Choose a discipline and we can help you out a little better.
unnervingfalcon
New member
- Location
- Warkworth, Ontario
When I say newbie I really mean it. lol I don't even have a gun license. This just really interests me. My father won a silver metal for target shooting and was presented to him by the Governor General of Canada. This was back in the late 60's I think. He hasn't shot in a long time and I'd thought joining a site like this would help. I'm not sure what the classes are but I'd most likely be using a bi-pod and 1000 yards or less distance.
.308 is a great starter round and will be more forgiving in the wind over a .223 witch is also a great starter round.
The Remington 700 sps will be a good accurate gun that will allow for any upgrade if you want in the future.
The kick from a .308 is nothing but if you still find it to much it cost about $150 for a muzzle break installed.
The Remington 700 sps will be a good accurate gun that will allow for any upgrade if you want in the future.
The kick from a .308 is nothing but if you still find it to much it cost about $150 for a muzzle break installed.
It is very likely your father was a Target Rifle shooter. Target Rifle is shot with iron sights off your elbows with a jacket and sling, at distances from 300 to 1000 yards. For TR and F/TR classes only 2 calibers are permitted, .308 and .223. There is also a max bullet weight for some classes. Every province has it own (PRA) Provincial Rifle Association and most have co-joint memberships with the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association. See dcra.ca for more information and there should be a link there to your PRA.
If you are just starting out in either F Class (scoped rifle off a bipod) or Target Rifle start with a fast twist .223. Something with at least a 1:8" twist. These fast twist barrels will allow you to shoot 80 gr bullets that will be as good or better than a .308 shooting 155 gr bullets all the way to 1000 yards.
Also stay away from muzzle brakes as they are not allowed for use in F Class or TR competitions.
unnervingfalcon
New member
- Location
- Warkworth, Ontario
Thanks.... good advice. I was looking at the Browning A-bolt. I see that many rifles can come in different calibers. So what is the difference from a Varmint in .223 and a target rifle in .223? Only thing I can think of is that twist rate.
I have shot TR for about 20 years, shot here in Canada, the US and the UK. IIRC I have only seen one target rifle built on a Browning action. Prone target rifles tend to be custom made rifles and to tell the truth are not much good for anything else. If you are looking for something off the shelf that will work you can look at the Savage Palma rifle. However if you are just getting started I would look for a good used target rifle like a Swing or Musgrave or a Sportco. I did see a used .223 Sportco on the EE just last week.
Check out this article http://w w w.6mmbr.com/gunweek056.html
Check out this article http://w w w.6mmbr.com/gunweek056.html
I think that the VERY first thing that you should do is to go along to a gun club and find out what exactly goes on. I'm also pretty sure that your nearest dealership will point you in the right direction.
Right now there are a zillion questions that you could be asking, but don't exactly know what to ask for, or even about. You are in the position of somebody who wants to learn to drive, but hasn't not only not got a car, but hasn't yet taken a single driving lesson. You obviously have some knowledge, else you wouldn't be mentioning twist rate, but 1000 yard target rifle is not necessarily where you start out as a tyro, IMO.
Here in UK noobs have to serve six months learning as a provisional member of a gun club before they can apply for a gun license, as well as passing competency tests and so on along the way, and are exposed to every kind of shooting that we do in our club, and bleeve me, we have EVERY kind of shooter, apart from cartridge-firing handguns, that is. That way they get to see and try out all the club guns, in many different calibres, and shoot everything placed in front of them by all the other club members, before settling on a shooting discipline that gets their attention more than something else.
You really do need to see the range of shooting opportunities at first hand to get some idea where to start from. Perhaps the rigidly defined disciplines of [expensive] gravel-bellying is not for you, and maybe you would feel more at ease in a less formal environment - only YOU can decide.
After you've seen what there is out there.
My $0.02.
tac
Right now there are a zillion questions that you could be asking, but don't exactly know what to ask for, or even about. You are in the position of somebody who wants to learn to drive, but hasn't not only not got a car, but hasn't yet taken a single driving lesson. You obviously have some knowledge, else you wouldn't be mentioning twist rate, but 1000 yard target rifle is not necessarily where you start out as a tyro, IMO.
Here in UK noobs have to serve six months learning as a provisional member of a gun club before they can apply for a gun license, as well as passing competency tests and so on along the way, and are exposed to every kind of shooting that we do in our club, and bleeve me, we have EVERY kind of shooter, apart from cartridge-firing handguns, that is. That way they get to see and try out all the club guns, in many different calibres, and shoot everything placed in front of them by all the other club members, before settling on a shooting discipline that gets their attention more than something else.
You really do need to see the range of shooting opportunities at first hand to get some idea where to start from. Perhaps the rigidly defined disciplines of [expensive] gravel-bellying is not for you, and maybe you would feel more at ease in a less formal environment - only YOU can decide.
After you've seen what there is out there.
My $0.02.
tac
tacfoley,
There isn't any place here in Canada that has a facility like that of Bisley. I do not know of any "Gun Clubs" here in Canada that can offer 1000 yard shooting like the OP is looking for, besides contacting his local PRA to get more information.
The reason I pointed out a fast twist .223 in the first place is because I have seen many new shooter that piss away good money for a rifle and scope that will not get the job done even at the mid ranges.
While I agree 1000 yards may not be the place to start for a noob, once they can shoot a half-ass group at a shorter distance why not shoot 1000 yards? Given the right equipment and a good wind coach calling the wind for them, it is just hold a squeeze.
Gravel-bellying as you call it, can be very expensive to start off with. I would never suggest dropping 4K-5K on a custom built PRA or Barnard as a first rifle. Something used would be a good start. Some PRA's and shooters even have rifles and equipment to that they would loan/lease to new shooters to get them started.
Every shooting discipline has competitive shooters and casual shooters. While I enjoy shooting skeet as a casual shooter I would not dream of shooting it on a provincial, national or international level like I do with Target Rifle.
There isn't any place here in Canada that has a facility like that of Bisley. I do not know of any "Gun Clubs" here in Canada that can offer 1000 yard shooting like the OP is looking for, besides contacting his local PRA to get more information.
The reason I pointed out a fast twist .223 in the first place is because I have seen many new shooter that piss away good money for a rifle and scope that will not get the job done even at the mid ranges.
While I agree 1000 yards may not be the place to start for a noob, once they can shoot a half-ass group at a shorter distance why not shoot 1000 yards? Given the right equipment and a good wind coach calling the wind for them, it is just hold a squeeze.
Gravel-bellying as you call it, can be very expensive to start off with. I would never suggest dropping 4K-5K on a custom built PRA or Barnard as a first rifle. Something used would be a good start. Some PRA's and shooters even have rifles and equipment to that they would loan/lease to new shooters to get them started.
Every shooting discipline has competitive shooters and casual shooters. While I enjoy shooting skeet as a casual shooter I would not dream of shooting it on a provincial, national or international level like I do with Target Rifle.
There isn't any place here in Canada that has a facility like that of Bisley. I do not know of any "Gun Clubs" here in Canada that can offer 1000 yard shooting like the OP is looking for, besides contacting his local PRA to get more information.
Shrug. I don't shoot at Bisley, except maybe twice a year. I DO, however shoot at another nearby range where I can get up to 1200 yards on occasions, but much of my shooting is done at 300 or even less. My own club has only 100m, 50 and 25m ranges, BTW.
I also suggested that he contact an authority of some kind - a gun dealership [?] where details of local clubs might be posted. My local dealership in Belleville ONT has posted details of all the local clubs, as well as the names of contacts - your experience may differ.
The reason I pointed out a fast twist .223 in the first place is because I have seen many new shooter that piss away good money for a rifle and scope that will not get the job done even at the mid ranges.
It was my view that the OP has not much of an idea what he is looking for to begin with, and talking about ROT at this early stage of the learning curve is pointless.
While I agree 1000 yards may not be the place to start for a noob, once they can shoot a half-ass group at a shorter distance why not shoot 1000 yards? Given the right equipment and a good wind coach calling the wind for them, it is just hold a squeeze.
The OP has not yet begun to shoot, let alone produce a 'half-ass group'.
Gravel-bellying as you call it, can be very expensive to start off with. I would never suggest dropping 4K-5K on a custom built PRA or Barnard as a first rifle. Something used would be a good start. Some PRA's and shooters even have rifles and equipment to that they would loan/lease to new shooters to get them started.
Not MY description, Sir, but what target shooters are called world-wide by people like me who are NOT serious target shooters. I just go for a good day out making bangs and occasionally, holes in paper. I agree about the lease/loan business - as I noted, here in UK it is slightly different, since, like most of you, many of us have multiple guns that we can lend to noobs for shooting, well, any kind of shooting - except cartridge-firing handgun. Noobs are just not permiitted to stand and watch others having fun. Incidentally, my 300m match rifle that I shoot for fun in Switzerland cost me less than the rearsight now on it.
Every shooting discipline has competitive shooters and casual shooters. While I enjoy shooting skeet as a casual shooter I would not dream of shooting it on a provincial, national or international level like I do with Target Rifle.[/QUOTE]
Well done! That's some achievement, and I'm greatly in awe of people who shoot at that level, regardless of the discipline in which they do it.
I, too, shot competitively for almost 33 years for my country. However, in my case, the targets were mostly shooting back, and I never came second place in my life.
This explains why I don't take TR seriously, BTW.
And please, call me tac, unless you can write Tádhg - everybody else on the nine other fora I write on does. 'tacfoley' is how I had to sign in to get on this site - tac foley is my name.
tac
Shrug. I don't shoot at Bisley, except maybe twice a year. I DO, however shoot at another nearby range where I can get up to 1200 yards on occasions, but much of my shooting is done at 300 or even less. My own club has only 100m, 50 and 25m ranges, BTW.
I also suggested that he contact an authority of some kind - a gun dealership [?] where details of local clubs might be posted. My local dealership in Belleville ONT has posted details of all the local clubs, as well as the names of contacts - your experience may differ.
The reason I pointed out a fast twist .223 in the first place is because I have seen many new shooter that piss away good money for a rifle and scope that will not get the job done even at the mid ranges.
It was my view that the OP has not much of an idea what he is looking for to begin with, and talking about ROT at this early stage of the learning curve is pointless.
While I agree 1000 yards may not be the place to start for a noob, once they can shoot a half-ass group at a shorter distance why not shoot 1000 yards? Given the right equipment and a good wind coach calling the wind for them, it is just hold a squeeze.
The OP has not yet begun to shoot, let alone produce a 'half-ass group'.
Gravel-bellying as you call it, can be very expensive to start off with. I would never suggest dropping 4K-5K on a custom built PRA or Barnard as a first rifle. Something used would be a good start. Some PRA's and shooters even have rifles and equipment to that they would loan/lease to new shooters to get them started.
Not MY description, Sir, but what target shooters are called world-wide by people like me who are NOT serious target shooters. I just go for a good day out making bangs and occasionally, holes in paper. I agree about the lease/loan business - as I noted, here in UK it is slightly different, since, like most of you, many of us have multiple guns that we can lend to noobs for shooting, well, any kind of shooting - except cartridge-firing handgun. Noobs are just not permiitted to stand and watch others having fun. Incidentally, my 300m match rifle that I shoot for fun in Switzerland cost me less than the rearsight now on it.
Every shooting discipline has competitive shooters and casual shooters. While I enjoy shooting skeet as a casual shooter I would not dream of shooting it on a provincial, national or international level like I do with Target Rifle.[/QUOTE]
Well done! That's some achievement, and I'm greatly in awe of people who shoot at that level, regardless of the discipline in which they do it.
I, too, shot competitively for almost 33 years for my country. However, in my case, the targets were mostly shooting back, and I never came second place in my life.
This explains why I don't take TR seriously, BTW.
And please, call me tac, unless you can write Tádhg - everybody else on the nine other fora I write on does. 'tacfoley' is how I had to sign in to get on this site - tac foley is my name.
tac
tac,
I think that we would both agree that Canada lacks the "club culture" if you will, that the UK enjoys. We are miles behind the UK in this regard. We do not have the facilities here to be able to offer all the different types of shooting that can be done in one place like Bisley.
The ORA runs Introductory Days a few times a year and we also run a winter program to inform new shooters about the different disciplines that we offer. We get people from all walks of life, all age groups out just to see what we are about. They also get to shoot a few relays with ORA rifles and ammo at 300 yards with a one on one coach.
What we hope the Intro people take away from this is a) enough information to be able to select a suitable rifle and equipment. b) about to decide if they want to get into something as structured as the ORA. c) be able to decide what discipline(s) tickle their fancy.
We get some that jump right into it. While others may take up to a year or two collecting all the bits they need to start shooting long range. Others decide it isn't something that really turns them on and we never hear from them again.
I think that we would both agree that Canada lacks the "club culture" if you will, that the UK enjoys. We are miles behind the UK in this regard. We do not have the facilities here to be able to offer all the different types of shooting that can be done in one place like Bisley.
The ORA runs Introductory Days a few times a year and we also run a winter program to inform new shooters about the different disciplines that we offer. We get people from all walks of life, all age groups out just to see what we are about. They also get to shoot a few relays with ORA rifles and ammo at 300 yards with a one on one coach.
What we hope the Intro people take away from this is a) enough information to be able to select a suitable rifle and equipment. b) about to decide if they want to get into something as structured as the ORA. c) be able to decide what discipline(s) tickle their fancy.
We get some that jump right into it. While others may take up to a year or two collecting all the bits they need to start shooting long range. Others decide it isn't something that really turns them on and we never hear from them again.
I'd really value and appreciate the opportunity to visit you at one of your ORA 'open days', if one coincides with our next visit home.
Our little club here on the Cambridgeshire/Northamptonshire border only has around 250 members, but we have had to close the applications list for the foreseeable future due to the rapid growth in popularity of shooting sports of all kinds here in yUK in the last few years.
I'm more than happy to correspond with anybody about shooting of all kinds here and in Canada and the USA, where I 'have' a larger collection of guns that used to be mine, mostly handguns of the kind that are banned here on the big island of GB. I have only eighteen guns here - fifteen rifles and three handguns.
Anyhow, please accept my apologies for grandstanding, thread-drifting and hi-jacking - all in one thread.
Bestest
tac
Our little club here on the Cambridgeshire/Northamptonshire border only has around 250 members, but we have had to close the applications list for the foreseeable future due to the rapid growth in popularity of shooting sports of all kinds here in yUK in the last few years.
I'm more than happy to correspond with anybody about shooting of all kinds here and in Canada and the USA, where I 'have' a larger collection of guns that used to be mine, mostly handguns of the kind that are banned here on the big island of GB. I have only eighteen guns here - fifteen rifles and three handguns.
Anyhow, please accept my apologies for grandstanding, thread-drifting and hi-jacking - all in one thread.
Bestest
tac
unnervingfalcon
New member
- Location
- Warkworth, Ontario
Tac I noticed you mentioned Belleville Ont.. I live about 35 min from there in Warkworth.
I invited anyone's input in this thread. Hey I still don't even have a license yet. lol ... I'm just the type of person who likes to get as much info. as I can before getting into it. Making the right decision the first time is cheaper.
I invited anyone's input in this thread. Hey I still don't even have a license yet. lol ... I'm just the type of person who likes to get as much info. as I can before getting into it. Making the right decision the first time is cheaper.
Hah, MY family live just about 4km west of Wooler off 41 .....got a road named after them, too.
Maybe we'll meet up next year when we are over, eh?
tac
unnervingfalcon
New member
- Location
- Warkworth, Ontario
Hah, MY family live just about 4km west of Wooler off 41 .....got a road named after them, too.
Maybe we'll meet up next year when we are over, eh?
tac
Sure no problem. Was just up to a rifle store today and asked a few questions. The do a firearms safety course for two days and then you write the exam. $150 for the course. Guy said I can read the book I bought and try the exam myself but I'd rather have the proper teaching and spend the $150.
4 km west on new Wooler? I drive by there all the time going to Belleville.
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