nicest flintlock ever made!!

roseau river rat

roseau river rat

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Winnipeg
Here my friends is in my opinion one of the nicest,most functional and utilitarian flintlocks ever produced for the north american fur trade....
A beautiful 57 caliber smooth bore North West Company trade gun...
produced in the late 1700s up into the late 1800s.....Taker of many buffalo and other game traded to natives ,metis , and whites throughout north america.........Ok so this one is a repro....But!....it was crafted about 25 years ago by a skilled gunsmith from southern Saskatchewan according to original trade guns collected in a local museum.....I personaly have had this gun for the last 10 years and plan to hand it down to my kids and hopefully
to theirs as well.............I just wanted to show off some pictures and say that in those 10 years i have taken a few deer and grouse with this baby and it shoots and handles like a dream.....very light and accurate for a smoothbore....by far the best and most accurate reproduction trade rifle that i have ever seen and i have seen lots throughout my travels at reenactments in Canada and the Us..........annyway...........just wanted to share............
Dan.......................(Support our fighting men and women)..........................
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IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u5/roseau6672/100_0917.jpg[/IMG]
 
Hey Guys. There was a gentleman selling a "original old flintlock with a dragon on the side" up here a while ago...I never gave it much thought as it was lots of $. I have to ask though...what are the values of these things (both original and repro) I realize that condition factors heavily, so assume NRA good. What are we looking at? Hundreds? Thousands?
 
By the way the camera flash makes the stock look shinny but its not really,just a little wax on it......As far as value for a good repro i would say in the 1000.00 range for sure and for an original depending on condition maybe up to double that but it would have to be really good shootable condition to fetch that much....................
Dan....................................
 
Original trade guns have significant value. There are numerous variations, but in general, all are valuable. It is unusual to find one even in "good" condition. Most surviving specimens were rode hard and put away wet. There are a few good reference books on the topic. Gooding, Hanson and Hamilton come to mind. I was involved in the manufacture of repro trade guns about 35 years ago. They are fascinating historical pieces.
Some of the available reproductions are quite accurate, others are pretty horrible, from the standpoint of authenticity.
 
Wrong Way said:
Hey Guys. There was a gentleman selling a "original old flintlock with a dragon on the side" up here a while ago...I never gave it much thought as it was lots of $. I have to ask though...what are the values of these things (both original and repro) I realize that condition factors heavily, so assume NRA good. What are we looking at? Hundreds? Thousands?
Click to expand...

That would have been me indeed ... I didn't know what the thing was back then, did a bit of research on the "serpent" thingy and found out what it was. I did have a long conversation several months prior to trading with a gentlemen who'se handle I forget ... Found out a lot about these things but I''l be honest, Mooncoon made me an offer I simply couldn't refuse and I took it. Under the conditions that he kept the original owner of the firearm in question known if he ever was to part with it (I'll leave it at that for now but he's a well known individual in Quebec's heritage). I have to admit that I don't have much interest in muzzleloaders so I didn't care much for the gun in question, when I acquired it it didn't have a lock, was rusty as hell and I didn't care for it at all. I got a good trade for it in my book and what was received although I havent't dare fire them yet since I don't know the first thing about muzzleloaders and I wouldn't dare fire one for the first time without someone knowledgeable to look over my shoulder, they are quite decorative in my house, which is furnished in a rather rustic style. I'll be honest here, I really don't care how much how much the gun how much it was worth, the stuff I got was well worth it in my book.
 
Trade guns....

I have a friend who has an original "Chiefs" rifle. They were sent over as gifts for Chiefs of the different tribes. It has a rifled barrel marked "Baker". I wish I had it in my safe. Dave
 
A Chief's gun with a rifled barrel is most unusual. There were rifled guns presented, but the standard Chief's gun with silver thumbpiece, boar's head engraving etc. was a smoothbore. He is fortunate to have a real rarity.
 
Nice to see a real one...but...

Having just buid one from a NorthStarWest kit, I am glad to see an original one...two features I see different on the real one,,,the butt plate seem to be slightly curved...mine is a straight brass plate with 8 square nails. Second observation in the main tang screw...I was told to ensure it was at an angle through the front of the trigger guard (a characteristic feature of trade gun), through the stock and in the tang...the one I see on the original seems to be at right angle with the trigger guard...just wondering...I understand these were made during the longest period of time and there must have been variations...
I will fire mine for the first time at a rendez-vous, in June, and will be glad to share the results...
Cheers



mooncoon said:
Here is the one that Rob is referring to.

cheers mooncoon

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Here is another one in pretty tough condition. I believe it was found alongside a river bank many years ago and currently belongs to a friend of mine. The brass butt plate on my gun may be a later modification or it may simply have been that maker using salvage parts. Most of the trade guns I have seen, I think, had flat butt plates and if my memory is correct the early ones used nails while the later ones used screws. My gun, the flint one, dates to around 1800 - 1810 based on the barrel maker's name. The pattern on the butt near the butt plate is a recent decoration by parties unknown. A fun gun to shoot.

cheers mooncoon

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There are variations, but the guns made by a particular contractor during a particular period will be very similar to each other. The flat buttplate is just about standard.
On some guns the tang screw runs up into the tang, in others, it runs down into a trigger plate.
Incidentally, the latest dated NW gun reported is marked 1905. In 1932, there were still some NW guns in HBC storage in Winnipeg.
 
Picture worth 1000 words...

Nice specimen...converted to percussion...

here are a couple of pictures of my NorthStarWest replica...the owner of this small company in Montana is very confident his repro are authentic...we were in close contact all along my building project...Matt Denison that is, he is a great coach,

main screw angle...highlighted with arrows;
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/jacques1952/PICT5264.jpg

and the butt plate with the square nails (6 +1 on top);
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/jacques1952/PICT5259.jpg
cheers
Jacques
 
Interesting....flint to percussion..

I suppose the later ones were percussion like in the pictures above...so it may not be a conversion per say but one made as a percussion in the first place?


tiriaq said:
There are variations, but the guns made by a particular contractor during a particular period will be very similar to each other. The flat buttplate is just about standard.
On some guns the tang screw runs up into the tang, in others, it runs down into a trigger plate.
Incidentally, the latest dated NW gun reported is marked 1905. In 1932, there were still some NW guns in HBC storage in Winnipeg.
Click to expand...
 
The percussion gun that mooncoon posted isn't a conversion. The more or less standard percussion gun used Enfield pattern locks and a barrel breech styled like a rifled musket. The flint guns were phased out in the 1870s. The market was fading, and the Birmingham makers were having trouble supplying flint locks (mechanisms).
There were different companies who traded NW guns. HBC, NW Company, Amercian Fur Company. Their guns differ.
 
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