Nightforce vs Schmidt and Bender vs Vortex vs US Optics
- Thread starter bacardi
- Start date
While the price difference is massive, the Gen 2 is significantly better. Not that the Gen 1 is bad, it's just more comparible to the NSX than the S&B/etc.
- More zoom and wider range of magnification.
- Locking turrets
- Lower profile (if that matters)
- Better reticles
- Massive field of view
- Better glass (Gen 1 is pretty damn good though)
- Only one speed turrets unlike the Gen 1, which used to come in two speed. I prefer slow turrets for their widely spaced selections.
- Both FFP, which I highly prefer.
I may think of more later. The big ones are field of view, and a bit finer reticles. The zoom variation is nice too.
I own both. The Gen 1 is going on my AR for PRS matches for fun.
10 isn't bad, but why wouldn't they just make it lifetime? The issue too is theirs likely only covers mechanical issues, not no fault damages. That's big.
Caramel, you always have a unique view on things. Keep it up.
Agreed. Contracts for most things are complete BS. Construction, Government, Military, Air Canada, Bombardia...
It's all dirty dealings.
Realistically we are splitting fine hairs here with all scopes listed.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
.....except maybe the vortex. I'm still not convinced that the Razor warrants the same price tag as the others....
S&B, NF, USO, TT....yes, no doubt.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
If they're still around in 10 years.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Tangent Theta has lifetime warranty, the PMII is a schmidt and bender product. Considering the buzz down south, I highly doubt Tangent Theta will close up shop. Their product is WAY too freaking good, there's a reason they are backordered 6-12 months.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I'll start with I have not been behind them all - only S&B and NF. I AM NOT a pro of any kind. I'm not looking to argue with you guys who clearly know a lot more from experience, not reading.... You asked why I feel this way, so here it is.
I have never read a negative review of USO, S&B, TT, or NF. I have not heard anyone b!tch about warranty service from any their HQ's either. There have been issues with Canadian support, but that's not a fair comparison of the mother company or product quality.
I have read less than favourable reviews of the Razor HD2, and there is no shortage of people who have had Vortex scopes fail them. Also, the HD2 is f-ing HEAVY!!!
I personally am a Vortex fan for their great value in the PST/HS-LR segments, but I don't think the razor HD-2 has the lineage, or the tests of time/battle to justify what the asking price is. I acknowledge that the same could be said for the TT, but the reviews are so overwhelmingly good it's hard to ignore.
If I was a pro, I'd be choosing a brand that had been proven by my predecessors to perform well and be tough as nails.
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I would need to confirm, but I believe that Euro laws do not permit "lifetime warranties" as is permitted on our side of the water. I believe it has to do with consumer protection in that the government wants good warranties, but they think that "lifetime" is unrealistic and is used as a marketing ploy.
In reality, the big Euro optic companies usually bend over backwards if their product goes wonky; even after decades.
In reality, the big Euro optic companies usually bend over backwards if their product goes wonky; even after decades.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I know that. S&B is also German, which means they can't legally offer a lifetime warranty, but they've been around for ages. I wish TT the best of luck, but it's a tough market. I certainly wouldn't buy a scope based on warranty. Speaking of being "way too freaking good" to go under, is Tangent Theta honoring Premier's lifetime warranty?
To each their own.
People have to consider costs in this. Not sure what a TT cost, but I could estimate it's thousands more than a basic PM2 or Razor Gen 2.
You may not be a pro, but many are, and DO use them over all the others. Check out PRS and other forms of shooting.
I find it extremely surprisingly that you mention USO in this bunch. Considering they are not really known for anything great. Subpar glass, subpar optics, who knows about warranty because so few sold here. They rarely even make it into the comparison field of top optics and when they do they finish near last every time. Cost? They aren't cheap. Benefits here are they are completely customizable (with a cost), and seem to be quite sturdy.
Many review the Razor Gen 2 as better glass, turrets, and options than a PM2. Nightforce only recently came out with their F1 to be compared to the Gen 2, and it's good, but not great. The BEAST was a failure.
Haven't looked at the TT, as I know they are priced more than many peoples vehicles, and no matter how good that might be, I simply can't value a rifle scope to warrant that kind of price.
People have to consider costs in this. Not sure what a TT cost, but I could estimate it's thousands more than a basic PM2 or Razor Gen 2.
You may not be a pro, but many are, and DO use them over all the others. Check out PRS and other forms of shooting.
I find it extremely surprisingly that you mention USO in this bunch. Considering they are not really known for anything great. Subpar glass, subpar optics, who knows about warranty because so few sold here. They rarely even make it into the comparison field of top optics and when they do they finish near last every time. Cost? They aren't cheap. Benefits here are they are completely customizable (with a cost), and seem to be quite sturdy.
Many review the Razor Gen 2 as better glass, turrets, and options than a PM2. Nightforce only recently came out with their F1 to be compared to the Gen 2, and it's good, but not great. The BEAST was a failure.
Haven't looked at the TT, as I know they are priced more than many peoples vehicles, and no matter how good that might be, I simply can't value a rifle scope to warrant that kind of price.
Really? How did you come up with that conclusion?
S&B PMII 3-20 & 5-25 are roughly $4000
S&B PMII 3-27 are $6000'ish
TT 5-25 is around the $4000 mark
Razor 2 3.5-27 is around $3700
so, no the TT isn't thousands more, it's right inline with the optics it's competing against. I also wouldn't call the Nightforce Beast a failure, they couldn't make them fast enough for how fast they were selling, the problem with the Beast was it had features that people didn't necessarily need and therefore want to pay for. Everyone wanted a FFP ATACR, Nightforce listened.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
When I dropped my Razor HD 1-4 off a ledge and it landed turret first on a rock, the scope didn't even loose zero. My Viper PST didn't fare as well in a similar situation, but $15 got me a rebuilt scope.
I wouldn't go for a Diamondback or Crossfire on one of my rifles, but they have comparable return rates to other scopes in the same price range (Bushnell Trophy, etc.). The price is reasonable for what you get. If you're thinking Vortex is putting out garbage in their top of the line Razors, you don't know what you're talking about.
The only real problem with the Razor HD Gen II scopes is the weight. They're f-ing heavy, but built like a tank.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
The TT 5-25 is 6153$ from CoreTac.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I didn't say they're garbage either....I just wouldn't ever pay Almost 4K when there are other more established options in the same range without the bad reliability reputation, sub par reviews, and 1/2lb weight increase. The carry from my truck to the bench isn't that onerous, and if it craps out, my day is over, a mission is not.
If one popped up on the EE for 2k, I'd be all over it!!!
What did happen to the BEAST?? What were the real world thoughts on it?? Seems to me that NF rather unapologetically threw everything they had at it despite weight, cost, etc - like what Ford did with the GT.
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