Nightforce vs Schmidt and Bender vs Vortex vs US Optics
- Thread starter bacardi
- Start date
Hey Bacardi, - if you are leaning towards the S&B and are curious about reticles. May I suggest the P4 Fine (P4LF). That is what I am currently using and
I find it is a great 'all round' reticle. Good for ranging, tactical and fine enough for precision work. I'm running the 5-25X56. The Police reticle is nice as well, if you gravitate towards mildots vs hashmarks.
I have owned/used all the brands you have mentioned (besides the USO) and have settled with S&B.
I find it is a great 'all round' reticle. Good for ranging, tactical and fine enough for precision work. I'm running the 5-25X56. The Police reticle is nice as well, if you gravitate towards mildots vs hashmarks.
I have owned/used all the brands you have mentioned (besides the USO) and have settled with S&B.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Some brands do not make scopes with features desired in some sports. Not their "target" audience...
But there are plenty of them in others. Doesn't make them any worst or "weak"... in fact, some of the needs are very demanding wrt to optics AND mechanicals
Some brands want to be all things to all people and that can lead to a range of so-so.
Others specialise in smaller end user goals and excel at them. Some of these can get pretty eccentric and quirky but that is what they feel is best.
The OP question is pretty general so many good quality scopes may... may not work. When he firms up his goals, features he needs and budget... things will sort out.
Jerry
PS for the Vortex Razor gen 2, my suggestion is to take a close look at the scope you want to buy and ensure that it will work properly through its entire range of operation. The brand new in the box scope I had for a review failed optically and was sent back.... YMMV.
The 2 USO scopes, sent by USO, for me to review had so many problems, the review never happened. But that was a few years ago so hopefully, things have improved.
Every discipline has favored equipment. There is some overlap, but not always. Decide what you want to do with the equipment or you will not get a concise answer on a board like this because it is not specialized to one specific discipline. It's like asking what tires are best for "racing" without specifying the type of racing. The NASCAR driver, the Indy car driver, the rally car driver and the Baja driver will all give different answers.
The precision rifle blog is often criticized over on SH but I think its raw statistics are pretty clear. The S&Bs are clearly the front runners but those Gen II Vortex scopes seem to be getting quite popular. The Bushnells are up there on the list as well.
I don't have a true alpha scope (currently run a Bushy ERS) but have looked through some of the good stuff. Was the S&B 5-25 twice as good as mine? No, it wasn't, but it was better, if I had the funds (like Caramel) I would have one on every one of my rifles.
Playing the long range game isn't cheap, have to pay to play. The S&Bs are the current standard so I would say you cant go wrong with one. My only concern with one would be if it ever needed servicing. I think they have to go back to the homeland for that and you could be without an optic for awhile.
I don't have a true alpha scope (currently run a Bushy ERS) but have looked through some of the good stuff. Was the S&B 5-25 twice as good as mine? No, it wasn't, but it was better, if I had the funds (like Caramel) I would have one on every one of my rifles.
Playing the long range game isn't cheap, have to pay to play. The S&Bs are the current standard so I would say you cant go wrong with one. My only concern with one would be if it ever needed servicing. I think they have to go back to the homeland for that and you could be without an optic for awhile.
Lay off the BC Bud there Jerry. That's some funny ####!
Exactly.
To the OP if you have access to the Hide check out Killswitchs scope tracking tests. He does a very thorough write up on quite a few scopes. It's in the optics section and has tons of hits, you can't miss it.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Fully expect to need a full nomex suit for this... lots of Razor fans. And all those Razor fans and users can do the same test and verify whether their scope has the same issues. Hopefully, not.
BUT it is what it is... owner confirmed, returned the scope, moved on to another item.
I hope that this was a one off cause there was plenty to like about the scope... really, I was quite impressed. BUT I feel a scope has to work within all the parameters that it was designed for especially when asking for premium dollars.
And when it was clearly QC'ed and cleared to be good... yeah, not so good.
In all my reports, I have been very clear and open about my frame of view and what I consider important. The results are what I see... literally. Believe them.. great. Don't believe them... great too.
But all that I suggest can be varied by the reader with comparable products. If, they keep an open mind.... Sometimes you just get a lemon....sometimes, a user just doesn't want to see the flaws.
I am always on a look out for new gear that can improve my performance on target. I really don't care what product is going to work... but if it does, I will look very hard at putting into my service.
Am I more critical then some... maybe but those I compete against are as critical or more so.
I remember being flamed almost daily about my experience with the then new Stevens 200. LOTS of Rem 700 fans back then who just couldn't believe a floating bolt head sub $300 dollar could do all that I suggested.
Nowadays, that is just common knowledge.
So, read my review. Take it as you will. Whether the reader believes me or not, I am very neutral when I do my reviews. I WANT to find the next great thing....
YMMV
Jerry
Thank you for the info guys.
Caramel, do you mind list all of your S&B here?
What are the pros and cons of getting 1/4 MOA or 1 CM?
Is getting 3-20x50mm better choice than 5-25x56mm? Pros and cons?
What is DT, MT, LT, MTC on S&B?
How can I tell if they are first or second focal plane?
Caramel, do you mind list all of your S&B here?
What are the pros and cons of getting 1/4 MOA or 1 CM?
Is getting 3-20x50mm better choice than 5-25x56mm? Pros and cons?
What is DT, MT, LT, MTC on S&B?
How can I tell if they are first or second focal plane?
- PMll 12X50X56 P4F CCW 1/8 MOA MT SFP....
- PMll 5X25X56 Illuminated P4F CCW 1/4 MOA DT FFP....
- PMll 5X25X56 Illuminated P4F CCW 1/4 Moa DT SFP...
- PMll 3X12X50 Illuminated P4F .1 MRAD CCW DT FFP...
- Zenith 3X12X50 Flashdot 7 BDC H FFP...
- Klassik 3X12X50 Illuminated reticle 7 FFP...
All the informations were taken from the side of the boxes, i prefer by far the FFP... JP.
- PMll 5X25X56 Illuminated P4F CCW 1/4 MOA DT FFP....
- PMll 5X25X56 Illuminated P4F CCW 1/4 Moa DT SFP...
- PMll 3X12X50 Illuminated P4F .1 MRAD CCW DT FFP...
- Zenith 3X12X50 Flashdot 7 BDC H FFP...
- Klassik 3X12X50 Illuminated reticle 7 FFP...
All the informations were taken from the side of the boxes, i prefer by far the FFP... JP.
Thanks Caramel. Check this Barret BORS
h ttp://www.wolverinesupplies.com/ProductDetail/BAR141280_Barrett-BORS-v1-5-for-the-S-B-PMII-5-25x56-Riflescope
What does this item actually do? Only calculate the range? If it does, isn't it cheaper just to get a rangefinder?
h ttp://www.wolverinesupplies.com/ProductDetail/BAR141280_Barrett-BORS-v1-5-for-the-S-B-PMII-5-25x56-Riflescope
What does this item actually do? Only calculate the range? If it does, isn't it cheaper just to get a rangefinder?
That is good to hear. Wolverine is a top notch store. I have always been pleased with my service from there.
-MOA vs Mrad. If you were trained on moa stick with it for ease of use. If you have no experience on either system I would go Mrad, multiples of 10 is just easier to compute during use.
-Choice between models depends what you want it for. The 5-25 has lots of mag but it is a large scope, the 3-20 is the middle ground between mag and size, on the lower mag end you have the 3-12x50.
-As for turret system I would go DT (double turn). I found the new MTC to be a bit of a pain, the DT just plain works and is well thought out.
-Reticle, definitely the P4F (fine).
After reading those articles, I am now leaning toward MRAD/Mildot reticle and FFP scope. Now when you say " make sure your turrets match your reticle", you mean if your recticle is in MRAD/Mildot make sure you get 1 CM turret? and if your reticle is in MOA make sure you get MOA turret? Is this correct?
How to tell the difference between Mildot/MRAD reticle and MOA reticle since they look the same other than relying to what they advertised as? And, why would a manufacturer make Mildot/MRAD recticle with MOA turret and vice versa?
The mil (1 cm) models will only have mil reticles. The MOA versions can have either type of reticle as there are still people who insist on living in the 90's. If your interest is field shooting, go mil. It's the standard now. Maybe 1 out of 50 scopes with MOA make it into the PRS finale. Mil values are smaller, and have half as many digits. Processing them on the fly is a lot faster (Frank alludes to this in the article). FFP is also the standard for field shooting.
One other thing to watch for with the S&B scopes is the direction the turrets turn. Standard North American turrets turn CCW. But, S&B offers both CCW and European CW turrets.
One other thing to watch for with the S&B scopes is the direction the turrets turn. Standard North American turrets turn CCW. But, S&B offers both CCW and European CW turrets.
