NightForce (which one?)

MPower

MPower

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Hi everyone,

I will be in the market for a new scope to mount on my ar in the near future. I have my mind made up on a NightForce. Question is, with so many features and selection, I have a hard time figuring out which exact configuration would be right for my needs. I currently have a Bushnell Elite 6500 Tactical 4.5-30x50. It seems to have way too much magnification, either that or I don't know how to use it properly. I am really interested in the NF 3.5-15x50 F1 model. What do you guys think about the recticle being in the first focal plane? What type of click value adjustments should I get, MOA or MilRAD? Size is roughly the same, the NF being 1.2" longer than the Elite Tac, but weight is a huge difference, 30 oz for the NF and 21 oz for the Elite Tac. Anyone who has experience with any of these scopes please comment. I intend to use and keep this next scope for a long time and I need your help to make the decision for the purchase. Many thanks.

Cheers,
Gordon
 
The nice thing about FFP scopes is that your range calculations remain static throughout the power ranges.

MOA vs. Milrad though.. I've only ever used MOA.
 
I have the 5.5-22x56..wish I had more power, I don't find the weight that bad..FFP..really doesn't matter to me...I use the turrets for shooting distance.
 
FFP scopes give fixed power consistency in a variable scope. Reticle will grow/shrink with power adjustment. Downside is that they cost more. MOA v MilRad comes down to personal preference. Stick with what you're used to IMHO.
 
Did I miss what you're going to do with it? I have a 3.5-15x50 on my 308 with a mildot reticle and MOA adjustments. I bought this scope 6 or 7 years ago before I was really into the science of this game. I recently bought a 5.5-22x56 with the NP-R1 reticle and MOA adjustments and put it on my 300 WM ATRS rifle. Now they have a rapid turn turret with 20 MOA of adjustment per revolution. I wish I had one of those now because 20 minutes will take you a LONG way out there. 29 minutes should get me from 100 yard zero to 1000 yards.

Personally I wouldn't take a FFP scope. The reality is that most people aren't going to use their reticle for ranging. I have a LRF that gives more accurate and faster readings that my doing math in my head will. FFP reticles give a coarse reticle at high power and a tiny, unusable reticle at low power. Worst of both worlds for precision rifle work IMO.

If I was buying a new NXS I would still pick up the NP-R1 reticle, MOA adjustments and not go FFP. Power would depend on the application but there's nothing wrong with a 3.515x on a 308 and 5.5-22x on a 300WM or 7RM or 6.5-284 for LR Hunting work.
 
I have a 1-4x24 with Mildot on my AR and a 2.5-10x32 with NP-R2 on my SAN. I like the reticles in these applications. The NP reticles are very fine and the mil dot cross is faster for less magnification (at least to my eyes). I'm not a super high magnifaction fan.
For long range stuff, I'd be inclined to go for a FFP scope.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Personally I wouldn't take a FFP scope. The reality is that most people aren't going to use their reticle for ranging.
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I agree, for the price difference between a FFP scope and the cheaper RFP you could probably buy a LRF and be done with it. But, ranging has nothing to do with it. Erector tube error affects RFP scopes but not FFP scopes.

www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-HowToFFP-SFP.pdf
 
Read through this thread:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500209

Try an FFP scope. Get someone who actually knows how to use one to show you theirs, to try it.

Its a much more powerful setup for tactical/field use when you don't have time to make turret adjustments, which is why many armies are switching to it. Most people have no clue. They're comparing SFP and FFP under deliberate (target shooting) conditions, or your traditional hidden sniper role. Yeah, not much of a practical difference when you have all of the time in the world to calculate corrections in your head and make adjustments on your turrets. The main purpose of it is NOT for being able to range on any magnification. If you want to see the real power of FFP, run a snap shoot with 3-5 second exposures at multiple distances simultaneously (100-800m). Then you have something that looks more like what snipers and designated marksmen were faced with when put in a tower at a sensitive location and asked to defend against militants trying to attack it from a distance. Try that with an SPF scope and enjoy the boat load of fail... Same with movers; for a given target speed, the lead remains fairly constant (in terms of mils/MOA) over distance. Check it out in JBM. It's very advantageous to have reticle ticks that remain accurate and are in the same units as your dope when speedy target engagement is required.

The reason the Gen 2 XR reticle in the Premier and the reticles in the Horus scopes look the way they do is so that you can use them for windage and elevation instead of the turrets when things start happening fast and you don't have the time to touch the turrets or switch to the "magic" magnification. These work VERY nicely for hunting.
 
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All of the talk of ffp, power, weight, and mrad v. moa is worthless without knowing what you are going to actually use it for.
Saying you are going to put it on an AR doesn't really narrow it down much, but it is likely the 3.5x15 and up scopes are overkill.
 
MPower said:
Hi everyone,

I will be in the market for a new scope to mount on my ar in the near future. I have my mind made up on a NightForce. Question is, with so many features and selection, I have a hard time figuring out which exact configuration would be right for my needs. I currently have a Bushnell Elite 6500 Tactical 4.5-30x50. It seems to have way too much magnification, either that or I don't know how to use it properly. I am really interested in the NF 3.5-15x50 F1 model. What do you guys think about the recticle being in the first focal plane? What type of click value adjustments should I get, MOA or MilRAD? Size is roughly the same, the NF being 1.2" longer than the Elite Tac, but weight is a huge difference, 30 oz for the NF and 21 oz for the Elite Tac. Anyone who has experience with any of these scopes please comment. I intend to use and keep this next scope for a long time and I need your help to make the decision for the purchase. Many thanks.

Cheers,
Gordon
Click to expand...

I have two Nightforce NXS scopes, one being a 3.5-15x50 with the NPR2 reticle. Nothing wrong with Bushnell Elite series, I have one, it's just that Nightforce is on another level.

I won't comment on the pro's and cons of FFL as I have only read a lot about it and have not actually used it. My view would be similar to BUM's.

When I read up on it I found the Mil Dot math for ranging calculations more difficult to do in my head. Accordingly I went with the NPR2 MOA based reticle - no regrets. For a bench/target application the NPR1 would probably be even better.

What the Nightforce gives you for the exra money and 10 ozs is very robust construction, amazing glass, and the most consistent adjustment turrets I've ever come across.

If you can afford it FME the Nightforce is well worth it.
 
noneck180 said:
I have the 5.5-22x56..wish I had more power, I don't find the weight that bad..FFP..really doesn't matter to me...I use the turrets for shooting distance.
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My Bushnell Elite has the power. But at 30x mag, it just gets blurry and narrow. All I can see is a circular image that's about half the size of what is should be. What's worse is when I try to use the parallax adjustment, it doesn't seem to do anything?! Like I said, maybe I don't know how to use it properly.
 
I am a fan of the Bushnell Elites and have the 4.5x30x50 on my Kimber Tactical but you will find the Nightforce to be on a different plane. I have the NXS 8x32x56 on my TRG and at max power it stays sharp and crisp. Bags of room to adjust and built like a tank. If I could afford to do so I would put a NXS on all my rifles.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Did I miss what you're going to do with it? I have a 3.5-15x50 on my 308 with a mildot reticle and MOA adjustments. I bought this scope 6 or 7 years ago before I was really into the science of this game. I recently bought a 5.5-22x56 with the NP-R1 reticle and MOA adjustments and put it on my 300 WM ATRS rifle. Now they have a rapid turn turret with 20 MOA of adjustment per revolution. I wish I had one of those now because 20 minutes will take you a LONG way out there. 29 minutes should get me from 100 yard zero to 1000 yards.

Well, I hope to use it for several things, sort of like an allround scope. AR is for range shooting, so max would be 250-300 yards, but in the future I hope to have a longer range unrestricted rifle to shoot 500-1000 yards. I realize that 3.5-15x is overkill for the range but just can't afford to buy 2 expensive/highend scopes.
Click to expand...
 
kombayotch said:
Read through this thread:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500209

Try an FFP scope. Get someone who actually knows how to use one to show you theirs, to try it.

Its a much more powerful setup for tactical/field use when you don't have time to make turret adjustments, which is why many armies are switching to it. Most people have no clue. They're comparing SFP and FFP under deliberate (target shooting) conditions, or your traditional hidden sniper role. Yeah, not much of a practical difference when you have all of the time in the world to calculate corrections in your head and make adjustments on your turrets. The main purpose of it is NOT for being able to range on any magnification. If you want to see the real power of FFP, run a snap shoot with 3-5 second exposures at multiple distances simultaneously (100-800m). Then you have something that looks more like what snipers and designated marksmen were faced with when put in a tower at a sensitive location and asked to defend against militants trying to attack it from a distance. Try that with an SPF scope and enjoy the boat load of fail... Same with movers; for a given target speed, the lead remains fairly constant (in terms of mils/MOA) over distance. Check it out in JBM. It's very advantageous to have reticle ticks that remain accurate and are in the same units as your dope when speedy target engagement is required.

The reason the Gen 2 XR reticle in the Premier and the reticles in the Horus scopes look the way they do is so that you can use them for windage and elevation instead of the turrets when things start happening fast and you don't have the time to touch the turrets or switch to the "magic" magnification. These work VERY nicely for hunting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link to that thread. Very interesting and definitely something I would be interested in trying.
 
You need the 2.5-10x32 NF nxs or new Schmidt and Bender 1-8 for up to 300 yards, look at nothing else. anything else is way more than you need, really!
 
dizzy said:
You need the 2.5-10x32 NF nxs or new Schmidt and Bender 1-8 for up to 300 yards, look at nothing else. anything else is way more than you need, really!
Click to expand...

I use mine set on 22 power for shooting 50 yards and up..I must be magnification nut I guess. If a guy is going to spend close to 2 grand for a scope..why not get more power and turn it back if that turns your crank...or is the size of the scope?
 
You want a minimum of 3X for every 100 yards you shoot. More is better.

If you are doing the type of shooting where a) you are shooting unknown distances and b) you have the time to calculate the distance using match and you scope, buy ffp.

For the majority of precison shooters, you want as small a reticle and dot as you can get away with. They use non-ffp scopes. The rest use rangefinders or known distances and adjust accordingly.

If you want my opinion, (and remember what you paid for it) in something like an AR which can only be shot on approved ranges (and hence KNOWN distances) you would be pyssing away money on an FFP scope. A Leupold or Nightforce scope would be an excellent investment.
 
noneck180 said:
I use mine set on 22 power for shooting 50 yards and up..I must be magnification nut I guess. If a guy is going to spend close to 2 grand for a scope..why not get more power and turn it back if that turns your crank...or is the size of the scope?
Click to expand...

I have that scope on my 22 (5.5-22x56 NF) anschutz 22 lr, and use it for 50 yards, but on a battle rifle you need much bigger field of view and your targets are not the holes in the buttons. Speed of target acquisition with 22x is not all that quick.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Now they have a rapid turn turret with 20 MOA of adjustment per revolution. I wish I had one of those now because 20 minutes will take you a LONG way out there. 29 minutes should get me from 100 yard zero to 1000 yards.
Click to expand...

The High speed/Zero stop turret is awesome! Recently purchased a NXS 5.5-22x56mm NP-R1 from Hirsch Precision.
 
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