Nightforce

Greenpasture has missed the point! Stop throwing more at him!

There is a word for guys who talk about buying $3000 scopes and then sh*t their pants over a $35 shipping charge. They are called "tirekickers" and they aint buying a g*damn thing! Next,

Patrick
 
The way I see it is why take a change on buying a grey market scope when only saving say a hundred dollars or so. What happens if you need warranty work? With the grey market you are not guarantied to get the scope back in a timely manner and it could be stuck in customs for a long while without the proper paper work. Where an authorized dealers scope would have the proper paper work and just cruise through customs. Also if your grey market scope gets held up in customs it could cost you a fair bit to get everything straightened out to get your scope back.
 
greenpasture said:
I am naive? A few hundred dollars! Enough said.

So we know ATR will not support costs for returning the scope to USA. Good or Bad it is a fact. That is a business decision.

Perhaps P&D and Hirsch will comment.
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What do you feel is a reasonably profit margin for obscure products that only a tiny segment of the population will purchase? Remember dealers like ATRS and Hirsch Precision actually STOCK alot of this stuff and they get charged interest just like you and me.
 
greenpasture said:
I am naive? A few hundred dollars! Enough said.

So we know ATR will not support costs for returning the scope to USA. Good or Bad it is a fact. That is a business decision.

Perhaps P&D and Hirsch will comment.
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A few hundred dollars is too much profit on a $2000 or $3000 scope ? Yes, this might be a slightly higher margin that your friendly neighborhood walmart but for good reason. They are paying fees to import them, paying to ship them here, there are the dozens of different expenses involved with operating a business, and yes, they are entitled to make a little money. I know, it is almost disgusting that in a capitalist country like Canada, people are permitted to make money, but it sure beats commie China.

So back to my original question - what dealings have you had with Rick at AB Tac Rifle ? Or Peter at Hirsch ? Or any other dealer on this board ? Have you had warranty problems with any of these dealers ? Please enlighten us as to your wealth of knowledge and experience because obviously the vast majority of us must be getting screwed and keep coming back for more...
 
greenpasture said:
I am naive? A few hundred dollars! Enough said.
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Anyone who has even the slightest inkling of business management knowledge as taught in "Kool Aid stand 101" has to realize that if any business sells their product AT or below cost they will not be in business very long. The minimum percentage being commonly accepted by most business management experts is 35% margin.

Any honest firearms dealer will tell you 1 does NOT make anywhere near that mark up on high end optics, or rifles.
Apparently you have a problem with my feeding my family by making a profit on what I sell. Do you so openly resent Safeway, Tim Hortons, every bank, oil companies etc also making a profit there by maintaining a service or supply as much as you resenting my ability to employ several individuals as well as stocking a lot of parts for the Canadian gun enthusists?????

I KNOW that Bushnel, Leupold, Nikon,Remington, Browning, Savage,Sako, HSP, as well as 99.9% of the manufacturers do NOT cover shipping costs in any form when it comes down to a warranty problem.

Seeing as you seem to be so wise maybe you can come up with a list of companies that DO cover the shipping costs when dealing with a warranty problem. The time has come for you to either put up or ......
 
I spoke to Nightforce today and any NF scopes requiring service/inspection can be shipped directly by the owner to NF in the US (they provide the required paperwork, although no restrictions to ship from Canada to USA, as I was told by NF) and they will ship it back via their Canadian 'export/import permitted' dealer network to a location near you. No receipt required.
 
dpopl8r said:
I spoke to Nightforce today and any NF scopes requiring service/inspection can be shipped directly by the owner to NF in the US (they provide the required paperwork, although no restrictions to ship from Canada to USA, as I was told by NF) and they will ship it back via their Canadian 'export/import permitted' dealer network to a location near you. No receipt required.
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Before relying on info provided by a company in a foreign country about Canadian laws I would suggest calling DFAIT and finding out what OUR laws are in this regard.
A temporary export permit is required to ship a scope out of this countryif the plan is to do it legally.
 
I will step into this mud puddle

1. why should a legal nightforce dealer ship the scope back to you (a FFL chages 35 us to recive & ship a gun so why not a scope, why should they do this for free when you deliberately did not buy from them) the company I worked for when not retured did not perform warranty work or exchanges on tools unless a reciept was provided, folks buy stuff at auction and then try to return for full replacement warranty.

2. on the temporary canuck export permit it will not be granted unless the itme is being return directly to the original permit holder, this is illegal and the nightforce dealers are at risk by sending the scope on, the item being brought back (even though warranty) is supposed to be brought back by the same channells it was sent on NOT BY SOME 3RD PARTY (the us manufacture is just trying to send it via the usa channel already established, that does not make it right or legal in canada)

EXAMPLE WHEN SHOOITNG AT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP OUR CANUCK TEAM HAD TO GET TEMPORARY EXPORT PERMITS FROM CANADA,

if I was a nightforce dealer I would send the sopce back to nightforce and tell them I cannot do this,
why the heck become a dealer just pretend ot be a dealer and accept waranty items back at no cost, gee can I apply to lose money time and effort to support customers who backstab me,

what a new concept for business

Jefferson
 
All this information is good. My one and only NF scope came from a licensed Canadian Dealer - I was asssured at the time of purchase they would provide the support should I require warranty, which is why I bought it there.

However, I prefer to handle things on my own to save the hassle for me and them - it's no biggie to fill out some paper work. If NF dealers have a problem with providing either export/import support (regardless of where it was purchased) as part of a larger dealer network, then they should'nt sell NF scopes. If I had to take my dodge back to where I purchased it for warranty work, I would have to drive 10 hours - instead, my local dealer handles it with no issues. Why wouldn't NF dealers here function similarly ?

In either case, unless the dealer is 'motivated' to help, it sounds like owning a NF can be a real PITA if anything ever goes wrong with it.
 
dpopl8r said:
All this information is good. My one and only NF scope came from a licensed Canadian Dealer - I was asssured at the time of purchase they would provide the support should I require warranty, which is why I bought it there.

However, I prefer to handle things on my own to save the hassle for me and them - it's no biggie to fill out some paper work. If NF dealers have a problem with providing either export/import support (regardless of where it was purchased) as part of a larger dealer network, then they should'nt sell NF scopes. If I had to take my dodge back to where I purchased it for warranty work, I would have to drive 10 hours - instead, my local dealer handles it with no issues. Why wouldn't NF dealers here function similarly ?

I think you may be misunderstanding something here.
I think I can speak for all Authorized Canadian dealers, we all take pride in offering what we feel are top quality scopes and service.
It is NOT a problem for us to return a NF scope legally hence avoiding a potential import/expoert hassle. Any NF dealer CAN and DOES this as part of the service. The problem "CAN BE" with illegally exported scopes that can not be tracked back to an export permit allowing a controlled ITAR item being exported from the USA, this is where there CAN be issues. Both with US and Canadian customs.
It is not a matter of whether any NF dealer wants to help or not, it is a legal issue that although not insurmountable, can result in lengthy delays and additional costs getting a scope back from the US after the fact.

NF does NOT cover the shipping costs of shipping to them which is the norm for almost all manufacturers.
This seems to be a real issue for some.
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Thanks for clarifying that Rick. Glad to see you stand behind NF. For me, the dealer not covering the shipping is understood - this is the same as for anything else being returned under warranty. Though, it's too bad NF doesn't have a warranty depot in Canada - save everyone a few headaches.
 
dpopl8r said:
Thanks for clarifying that Rick. Glad to see you stand behind NF. For me, the dealer not covering the shipping is understood - this is the same as for anything else being returned under warranty. Though, it's too bad NF doesn't have a warranty depot in Canada - save everyone a few headaches.
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This holds true for alot of different products though. For a period (and it still might be the case), Burris scopes had to go the US for warranty work.

Unfortunately, the Canadian market represents a small market to many manufacturers. In alot of ways, I am surprised Canada gets half the good stuff that it does. Much of this success can and should be directly attributed to Canadian dealers busting their behinds to bring us the stuff we want and (contrary to what some think or want) make a few bucks for their trouble.
 
Dpop,,

How many optic companies have warranty depots it Canada? besides Leupold,and from what I understand they don't repair their Tactiacl lines of scopes at Korth????
I don't think having to send quality glass outside of Canada for warranty is anything new or will ever change anytime soon.

Good points Gorky
 
noneck180 said:
Dpop,,

How many optic companies have warranty depots it Canada? besides Leupold,and from what I understand they don't repair their Tactiacl lines of scopes at Korth????
I don't think having to send quality glass outside of Canada for warranty is anything new or will ever change anytime soon.

Good points Gorky
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Leupold, Bushnell, Vortex, Premier Heritage ....
 
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I got mine through Rick at ARTS this past fall and you couldent ask for a better fella to deal with infact i was talking to him just yesterday about possable getting anotherone they are by far the best scopes I have ever looked through
 
Geez Louise whatever happened to Customer Service. i don't care where you bought your optic, were I a dealer for NF I would service anyone who brought in a NF optic regardless of who they bought it from. They would get the best service from me, as I would hope to gain their future business. Its simply supply and demand, You don't give me service I don't buy from you. NF will honor their warranty and should regardless of who bought it from who, the product doesn't change. anything less makes their service much worse than Leupolds, no questions asked. the retailers on this board need to provide good service, that is how you protect your turf. The free market at work.

TSE carries NF, great Service and will deal on price. P&D has never given me a deal buy there only when I have to. ARTS, great product line and great service. Bashaw Sports??? will deal they often have a good selection. Best prices often on EE.
 
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