Nightmare of the S.A.M.
- Thread starter magnumair
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kschneider
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- southern ontario
"I never said anything about one being better than the other, it was you who inferred such a debate was occurring. Now that you mention it, yes, a logical person would conclude that a Glock is a superior design than a 1911. Basing this opinion on the sole fact that 1911 parts need to be fitted whereas Glock parts do not, the conclusion is easy for even the most novice firearms enthusiast to figure out. Add in the laundry list of other benefits and only the insane or truly gifted would believe otherwise."
Of course every part fits every Glock. It should, they are all made by Glock, why the hell wouldn't they. How many different companies make 1911's? I won't even begin to count. Some, like SAM's, are made CNC machinery, others are made in little commie sweat shops, with the technology that blacksmiths use to use, so you really can't expect one part to fit all. As far as Glock being superior design, yeah, everybody and his uncle are copying Glocks, not. The fact that the 1911 is, well, just shows, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Of course every part fits every Glock. It should, they are all made by Glock, why the hell wouldn't they. How many different companies make 1911's? I won't even begin to count. Some, like SAM's, are made CNC machinery, others are made in little commie sweat shops, with the technology that blacksmiths use to use, so you really can't expect one part to fit all. As far as Glock being superior design, yeah, everybody and his uncle are copying Glocks, not. The fact that the 1911 is, well, just shows, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
I wont argue with the post, but to keep things fair, how many manufacturers have made polymer frame striker fired pistols? How many numbers are sold as compared to a 1911 design pistol?
There are lots of companies making parts for Glocks. If it were not for the love affair that North America has with the 1911, it would have died out a while ago.
This does not mean that I prefer one design over the other. I am an equal opportunity shooter, absolutely no discrimination in regards to design or caliber.
Re read my post, I said MOST.
And there is the other big BS gripe from Glock haters, "they're popular because they're cheap." Well news flash, all guns are cheap when you buy in bulk. By your logic the HiPoint series of turds/pistols should be dominating the market with ease!
As for praising the trigger on a Glock, I never said I did. All I'm saying is that fundamentals trump all, and the Glock trigger is more than serviceable for those who understand and can apply them. There's no doubt a good 1911 has a better trigger, but its the trigger and the weight of the pistol that are giving the user the false belief that they are a "good shot". If you know what you're doing you should be able to pick up any auto and print respectable groups without issue. I have seen very few 1911 guys shoot anything remotely close to a group with a Glock, or a TDA like a SIG for that matter either. The comfort of a system that covers up your poor form is easier to get behind than spending time, money and effort learning to shoot properly.
I never said anything about one being better than the other, it was you who inferred such a debate was occurring. Now that you mention it, yes, a logical person would conclude that a Glock is a superior design than a 1911. Basing this opinion on the sole fact that 1911 parts need to be fitted whereas Glock parts do not, the conclusion is easy for even the most novice firearms enthusiast to figure out. Add in the laundry list of other benefits and only the insane or truly gifted would believe otherwise.
Tools, not toys NAA. Perhaps many see them as toys or part of their "collection" but please don't include me in either group.
TDC
Get laid, smoke a joint please do something nd relax
The further off of Colt spec a gun is, the more of a pain in the ass it's going to be to fit parts to.
I like 1911s to be as close as I can get to the Colt spec for this reason.
I don't own any SAMs.
I like 1911s to be as close as I can get to the Colt spec for this reason.
I don't own any SAMs.
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
We can work out a mutually beneficial deal. EMT is king. Lol.
So what you're saying is that in 100 years since its inception, most companies cannot follow the specs laid out by JMB? Here's another piece of food for thought. How many companies make AR series of rifles, and how many will interchange parts without issue? I'll answer for you, nearly all, with the exception of NEA, NORC, and SGW. I've owned several different brands of AR uppers, lowers, complete rifles and parts from many manufacturers. Not one ever gave me a problem when I mixed brands, weird huh?
I'm relaxed, not the least bit worked up, upset, miffed or disturbed. I'll pass on the dope use, I'm smarter than that.
Can you explain why so many companies fail to follow JMB's specs or why they feel the need to ##### with them? My bet is its either poor QC as in "we don't give a sh*t, some dumbass will buy it" or they don't know any better.
Check your data Hitzy, the kabooms were caused by RELOADED ammo that was done poorly and several were caused by the wrong calibre being used. Seeing how Glock beat S&W to production of a .40cal pistol is a bit embarrassing, considering S&W developed the round. Lastly, .40cal is the only calibre I wouldn't own or run in a Glock, its a gimmick and there have been more problems with .40cal Glocks than any of the others. That being said, the .40cal Glocks are more prevalent in the hands of LE as well so that may account for the so called "mass failure rate".
TDC
Two reasons:
1) most either don't care or think they've improved something
2) only Colt has the complete spec. You could reverse-engineer a 1911 (and everybody else has) but what percentage of engineers even know which dimensions are critical? And which can be modified without causing other issues?
Over the past year I've actually come to believe that building a 1911 that works well is actually pretty easy.
But only if you start by defining the magazine with which you expect it to work.
That is the great advantage of Glock and H&K...even SIG. Who makes H&K mags? H&K, and they make them to their own, identical, spec. Who makes Glock mags? Glock and that ####ty Korean outfit. And Glocks work mostly pretty well, until you put KCI mags in them. Who makes 226 mags? SIG and Mec-Gar (and probably others who nobody trusts).
Who makes 1911 mags? Every moron with a stamping machine and a spring winder, and how many are made to the original GI 7-round spec with the intention of lobbing 230 grain ball? Yeah...
So 99% of mags are modified from the original design to fit more rounds, or alter the feed angle, or reduce or increase the feed control, or...or...or...
Frankly I think that's why so many 1911s don't run. Reverse-engineered from a design intended to carry 7 rounds of ball, by people without access to all the information about that design, and then fed from reverse-engineered mags modified to do something else.
It's very, very easy to build a GM 350 in your garage from off-the-shelf parts. Of course, if you want that V8 to be a V10, and you want the rod to stroke ratio closer to 2 than to 1.5...
Good luck with that motor.
1) most either don't care or think they've improved something
2) only Colt has the complete spec. You could reverse-engineer a 1911 (and everybody else has) but what percentage of engineers even know which dimensions are critical? And which can be modified without causing other issues?
Over the past year I've actually come to believe that building a 1911 that works well is actually pretty easy.
But only if you start by defining the magazine with which you expect it to work.
That is the great advantage of Glock and H&K...even SIG. Who makes H&K mags? H&K, and they make them to their own, identical, spec. Who makes Glock mags? Glock and that ####ty Korean outfit. And Glocks work mostly pretty well, until you put KCI mags in them. Who makes 226 mags? SIG and Mec-Gar (and probably others who nobody trusts).
Who makes 1911 mags? Every moron with a stamping machine and a spring winder, and how many are made to the original GI 7-round spec with the intention of lobbing 230 grain ball? Yeah...
So 99% of mags are modified from the original design to fit more rounds, or alter the feed angle, or reduce or increase the feed control, or...or...or...
Frankly I think that's why so many 1911s don't run. Reverse-engineered from a design intended to carry 7 rounds of ball, by people without access to all the information about that design, and then fed from reverse-engineered mags modified to do something else.
It's very, very easy to build a GM 350 in your garage from off-the-shelf parts. Of course, if you want that V8 to be a V10, and you want the rod to stroke ratio closer to 2 than to 1.5...
Good luck with that motor.
Just my opinion but I think part of the problem with people having issues with their 1911s might be the common attitude of "I just bought a 1911 and everyone says it needs to be hot rodded, so what should I do first?"
If its a legitimate issue with function, that's one thing. Then you get into the issue of many manufacturers trying to make similar components work between all. If its for the sake of customizing, accept the fact that it may require some work (like most custom applications in any area of technology).
The debate about Glocks being more reliable when compared to the 1911 world is an apples to horseshoes comparison. There is one company making Glocks. There is a plethora of companies making 1911s. There are aftermarket companies making parts for both, and most may in fact be using the "specs" of their respective platforms to do so. The difference is this: Glock-aftermarket is for Glock. 1911-aftermarket is for everything from original-style Colts to reverse engineered "GI" pistols from every corner of the globe. With that many different machining processes, I have a hard time believing anybody could hit it out of the park without some hands-on fitting. If there were as many Glock clones as there are 1911, I suspect there would be the same type of issues in the plastic camp.
I'm not Glock bashing, I'm just trying to be a little bit objective.
If its a legitimate issue with function, that's one thing. Then you get into the issue of many manufacturers trying to make similar components work between all. If its for the sake of customizing, accept the fact that it may require some work (like most custom applications in any area of technology).
The debate about Glocks being more reliable when compared to the 1911 world is an apples to horseshoes comparison. There is one company making Glocks. There is a plethora of companies making 1911s. There are aftermarket companies making parts for both, and most may in fact be using the "specs" of their respective platforms to do so. The difference is this: Glock-aftermarket is for Glock. 1911-aftermarket is for everything from original-style Colts to reverse engineered "GI" pistols from every corner of the globe. With that many different machining processes, I have a hard time believing anybody could hit it out of the park without some hands-on fitting. If there were as many Glock clones as there are 1911, I suspect there would be the same type of issues in the plastic camp.
I'm not Glock bashing, I'm just trying to be a little bit objective.
There's a lot of mythology out there about 1911's and various brands and for buyers perched on the edge of the dock deciding whether or not to take the plunge, it's difficult to sort through the all the hype and find the truth. Those of you out there who run these guns and run them hard like I do, you probably have a very short list of manufacturers and components who you would deal with to acquire guns and parts that you know will run. You also probably know about little issues like: How many rounds can I go between cleanings, cleaning and maintaining magazines, changing out springs at the appropriate time, proper lubrication, not dropping the slide on an empty chamber, etc. etc....
When dealing with quality makes, most of the stoppages I see tend to be owner induced. As I've said before: 1911's aren't for everyone. They are not plug and play modular guns and you need to know that going in.
So before you choose a gun:
Define the intended use.
Do your research.
Buy the best you can afford.
Maintain it properly.
Shoot the hell out of it.
When dealing with quality makes, most of the stoppages I see tend to be owner induced. As I've said before: 1911's aren't for everyone. They are not plug and play modular guns and you need to know that going in.
So before you choose a gun:
Define the intended use.
Do your research.
Buy the best you can afford.
Maintain it properly.
Shoot the hell out of it.
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I'm so sorry that the fit and finish on your new gun is so tight and wiggle free. I like my guns like my women... tight.
Most 1911's require some fitting. SAM's are all hand fit, there was a video a while ago showing the difference between SAM and Sig factories. Yes SAM looks like a sweat shop but you see it's all hand fit for the best fit, if you want to change things out, then there will be some hand fitting needed. If you want to be a garage gun smith and modify your guns, great, if it needs more work than you're willing to do, or are capable of doing, hire a professional. Do people in general prefer the easy road? of course! Will your gunsmith complain about more work that they have to do to get a good fit? Of course, because as you can tell especially on the internet, people usually like to moan, groan and complain.
my SAM shoots great, I don't think I need to replace any parts on it with a 'name brand' so I can be the cool guy on the range with a $1500 SAM.
Most 1911's require some fitting. SAM's are all hand fit, there was a video a while ago showing the difference between SAM and Sig factories. Yes SAM looks like a sweat shop but you see it's all hand fit for the best fit, if you want to change things out, then there will be some hand fitting needed. If you want to be a garage gun smith and modify your guns, great, if it needs more work than you're willing to do, or are capable of doing, hire a professional. Do people in general prefer the easy road? of course! Will your gunsmith complain about more work that they have to do to get a good fit? Of course, because as you can tell especially on the internet, people usually like to moan, groan and complain.
my SAM shoots great, I don't think I need to replace any parts on it with a 'name brand' so I can be the cool guy on the range with a $1500 SAM.
On my Omega .40, I replaced the barrel bushing and plug, recoil spring, and msh.... None required fitting. Now the bushing was ordered custom cut from EGW....so that's why it dropped in ;-)
It was mostly for cosmetics, I like checkered msh, and .125 thick flange bushings.
Nothing will be changed on my SS 9mm Commander....
It was mostly for cosmetics, I like checkered msh, and .125 thick flange bushings.
Nothing will be changed on my SS 9mm Commander....
You can get lucky with a barrel bushing and get them to "drop in" if they are machined to loose tolerence. Depending on the gun and how it links down it may or may not be just the thing. Recoil springs and mainspring housings rarely need much, if any real fitting. It would be an entirely different matter though for fire-control parts or safeties. They have to be fitted to the gun.
The EGW bushings are a little different....you measure your barrel OD, and slide ID with calipers, they cut a bushing with about .0005 clearance. So they "drop in", but are very tight. They also offer an angle bore cut in the bushing as the 1911 barrel actually droops a bit in lock up...this makes for more material supporting the end of the barrel compared to a straight cut bushing. It's about a 3 week turn around, but well worth it IMHO vs the time and effort and tools required to do this properly.
Well that's cool. George is certainly capable of long-distance fitting if anyone is. Plus, I love his sears and disconnectors.
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
You can squeeze a 6.1" rod in a 350 with little trouble, but longer than that requires plugging the piston pin bores after assembly to support the oil rings. You will end up with a ratio better than the 1.72:1 from 6" rods, but not really worth it. A 6" rod also reduces the maximum rod angle to the cylinder bore centerline to 16.858°, assuming that the wrist pin has no offset. On a ford small block, installing the pistons backwards will actually gain almost 20 Hp. since the piston acts like it was mounted on a longer rod, as the offset is reversed, at the price of increased noise and wear. And what the hell does this have to do with the reliability or quality of A SAM. Personally, I don't give a flying #### what any of you think of my SAM's. All that matters to me is that I am happy with them. If I wasn't, I would not have 2. I am sorry that you are not happy with yours. And finally, don't cut down a woman's guns when she is PMSing, or this is what you will get. LOL.
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