No 4 MK I Degreasing/Degriming?

stencollector said:
From the few examples of the Corwin Enfields I have seen, I have to agree 100%. The ones I saw were Factory Through Repairs, done by Canadian Arsenals around 1960. Your rifle shows it has low cut wood. Normally that is only found on a 41 or earlier 42 rifle. Yet on the Corwin site, there was even a 1950 dated rifle with low cut wood. One would certainly expect a low cut wood rifle to have the early machined rear site, yet yours shows the L site typical of mid war production. I have noted the Cdn Arsenals acceptance stamp on the forestock as well as the original C/l\ marks. Hard to tell by your photos, but it also looks like you have one machined band, and one fabricated band.

The sure giveaway if it's a rebuild will be on the wrist. If there is a little letter and 1, 2 or 3 numbers stamped somewhere below the serial number on the left side of the wrist, that seems to be an indication the rifle was FR in Canada. The point behind the FTR was to make a serviceable rifle, and not to be correct as to the various features supplied to the rifle.

Personally I thought the rifles were priced towards the top of the market. Had a FTR rifle been laying on a table at a gunshow, I think it will likely have been visiting many, many gunshows before it sold at around the $1100 price point, which is what a Corwin rifle ended up costing if you were paying HST and hipping.

Your mileage may vary.
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Judging by the examples I've seen, this is mostly the case.

However some people got some really nice virtually unissued ones, with all matching parts and correct features.

Many were however updated and refurbished, but while retaining their original matching bolts etc. Some also got parkerized bands and magazines, this may have been done here, but I actually suspect it was done by the NATO ally to whom these rifles were given.

After all, they were used by the NATO ally's Navy.
 
stencollector said:
From the few examples of the Corwin Enfields I have seen, I have to agree 100%. The ones I saw were Factory Through Repairs, done by Canadian Arsenals around 1960. Your rifle shows it has low cut wood. Normally that is only found on a 41 or earlier 42 rifle. Yet on the Corwin site, there was even a 1950 dated rifle with low cut wood. One would certainly expect a low cut wood rifle to have the early machined rear site, yet yours shows the L site typical of mid war production. I have noted the Cdn Arsenals acceptance stamp on the forestock as well as the original C/l\ marks. Hard to tell by your photos, but it also looks like you have one machined band, and one fabricated band.

The sure giveaway if it's a rebuild will be on the wrist. If there is a little letter and 1, 2 or 3 numbers stamped somewhere below the serial number on the left side of the wrist, that seems to be an indication the rifle was FR in Canada. The point behind the FTR was to make a serviceable rifle, and not to be correct as to the various features supplied to the rifle.

Personally I thought the rifles were priced towards the top of the market. Had a FTR rifle been laying on a table at a gunshow, I think it will likely have been visiting many, many gunshows before it sold at around the $1100 price point, which is what a Corwin rifle ended up costing if you were paying HST and hipping.

Your mileage may vary.
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I checked the wrist and the only mark below the serial number appears to be a small C broad arrow.....no sign of a 1,2 or 3.

It does have a small orange tag tied to the rear swivel with brown twine. It is printed with the words "Inspected by" but is very dirty and hard to read. I can't make out the cursive writing (in pencil) but can see where "Sept 22/60" was written in (also in what appears to be pencil)

The two bands definitely appear to be a different colour.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see why it was still there when the others had sold. Oh well, It's not the first time I've gotten taken on buying a gun and I suspect it won't be the last.....another reminder of buyer beware.

I guess the best way to look at it is that I wanted a Long Branch and now I have one.....maybe just not quite the one I would have chosen if I had been better informed. :redface:
 
The desirable part of these particular Enfields is that they were inspected/repaired as needed at the arsenal then put into storage. They simply haven't been used since or messed with by a bunch of owners. They are not restored sporters and should be great to shoot. I would think the arsenal had the right parts and knowledge to ensure they were good to go.
After cleaning up the cosmoline first!
 
sailor723 said:
Yeah, I'm beginning to see why it was still there when the others had sold. Oh well, It's not the first time I've gotten taken on buying a gun and I suspect it won't be the last.....another reminder of buyer beware.

I guess the best way to look at it is that I wanted a Long Branch and now I have one.....maybe just not quite the one I would have chosen if I had been better informed. :redface:
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"Taken" means taken advantage of, so let's not get things twisted. Nobody made you buy anything, sounds like you have buyers remorse due to falling into the buying frenzy. Having bought a couple things from Martin I can say his items are as advertised if not nicer, so if I were you I'd clean it and enjoy it.

It's not a in the paper wrapping original LB no.4 so cleaning it and shooting it for a bit shouldn't do anything for the resale value, knowing Martin's products I'd venture a guess that once it's cleaned and oiled you'll likely find it shines more than it does all covered in grease...
 
Butcherbill said:
"Taken" means taken advantage of, so let's not get things twisted. Nobody made you buy anything, sounds like you have buyers remorse due to falling into the buying frenzy. Having bought a couple things from Martin I can say his items are as advertised if not nicer, so if I were you I'd clean it and enjoy it.

It's not a in the paper wrapping original LB no.4 so cleaning it and shooting it for a bit shouldn't do anything for the resale value, knowing Martin's products I'd venture a guess that once it's cleaned and oiled you'll likely find it shines more than it does all covered in grease...
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In case it wasn't clear I have no beef with the seller. When I say "I got taken" I'm using it in the sense of paying too much . When someone offers something for sale they have no moral or ethical duty to point out the defects or deficiencies. Nor is there anything preventing them from asking a high price. They offered a gun and I bought it.......If I had time to do my homework or was more knowledgeable about these guns I probably wouldn't have,,,,,but that's on me.

I chalk this up as a learning experience. Sometimes when you jump quickly to grab something before it's gone you get a rare or scarce item...other times you buy a pig in a poke. Hopefully it all evens out in the end.
 
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pcvando said:
In the time it took to type all these posts, your rifle could be looking spiffy and ready for the range ;)
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You know, you're right but I'm stubborn.....and there are an almost infinite number of things I'd rather do than clean that sticky black goo. If spring ever gets here I think I'll shoot my clean and shiny K31 when I want to shoot a milsurp.:d
 
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If it's of any consolation, I saw numbers matching LB Mk4no1 go on the auction for 1,200-1250. There were 4 of them.

Possibly that people forgot about 18% auction fee during bidding. So they ended up paying 1400-1500.
 
About 6-7 years ago I bought several LBs from a vendor that were Indian returns complete with the so-called Ishapore screws in the forestocks. The rifles were really cruddy looking and the wood was beat, but after a good cleaning the metal came out very pristine with nice sharp bores. I think they may have been stored in the black hole of Calcutta, but after a good cleaning, some swapping in of LB parts and replacement LB wood they were a thing of beauty and a joy to behold. But man, were they ever grungy to start with.
 
BlackVoid said:
If it's of any consolation, I saw numbers matching LB Mk4no1 go on the auction for 1,200-1250. There were 4 of them.

Possibly that people forgot about 18% auction fee during bidding. So they ended up paying 1400-1500.
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Oh, the way prices are going I've no doubt this gun will be worth what I paid for it someday........that day is just not today.;)
 
sailor723 said:
the only mark below the serial number appears to be a small C broad arrow........

The rifle is a 1950
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Being that the rifle is a 1950, the C/l\ was no longer being used. It was declared obsolete in 47 or 48, although examples can be found into the 50s and even the 60s where the mark was still applied by manufacturers who were likely applying older pattern line drawings.

Your mark is more likely the C with a stylised arrow (some call it a Maple Leaf). While the C/l\ was a property mark, the new mark is merely an inspectors stamp.

As a 1950 LB rifle, typically your rifle should have had:
fabricated bands
regular high cut wood, and reddish brown as opposed to the light colour
the stamped rear leaf sight.

It would appear that, during the rebuild/repair process, CAL did not keep all the parts together, but may have at least kept the bolts with their original receivers. As well they should, it saves having to fit and inspect another bolt to the receiver. Re the alpha numeric code which is usually found on the lower wrist of Cdn rebuilt rifles, I am uncertain if the markings indicated re-finshing or rebuilding. Those style marks are also found on any of the grey phosphate finished stens from Canadian service no matter which country they originated from.

Personally, I would leave your rifle as is, since the rebuild/inspection is part of that rifle's history. It would cost you a lot more than you will recover to try and replace the wood to the original, and there is usually some fitting and gauging involved. If you are having trouble de-greasing the rifle, then I would suggest stock replacement may not be for you. Whether you leave it in the grease or clean it and shoot it, keep that tag to pass on with the rifle whenever it does go to a new home. It would help explain the anomolies, and add to the value.

Is the forestock Canadian? Can you supply a photo of the first 4 or 5 inches of the wood from the muzzle end? If it is low cut, and unnumbered, there are always guys desperate for nice, Canadian low cut wood for restorations of the early rifles. You likely have something that is desirable to others, if that in any way makes you feel better about your purchase.
 
stencollector said:
Can you show the bottom of the forestock; in particular whatever markings are there?
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Only marks I can see on the forestock are what looks like a B and then 2L8172 below it. This doesn't match the serial number of the rifle....it starts with 93L and then four different digits.

The first photo is the only other mark I see. It is on the top of the stock back by the butt stamped on a dark area of the wood (painted? inset?) Sorry for the crappy photos.....old Iphone....my two daughters keep stealing my upgrades :d
 

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OK, the 2L8172 number makes sense as that would have been an early 1942 rifle, and would have had the low cut wood. So it was very possible that the wood was changed during the rifle's overhaul and inspection at Canadian Arsenals. Almost surprising that a 10 year old rifle needed overhaul, but it is possible that it may have needed a repair like a barrel change, or that all the rifles in the foreign sale were put through CAL for inspection before the sale. At some point, when you remove the top wood, it will be interesting to see what the markings are on top of the barrel knoxsform.

The N on the buttstock simply indicates Normal length stock.

I have seen the light grey with almost a greenish tinge on front sight protectors that I suspect may have been refinished and put into store. It's possible they were doing the same with things like the bands and using them as part of the overhaul/inspection process.

Every Enfield tells a story in the sum of it's parts. Yours is interesting because the story comes from 1950s Cdn service followed by a Canadian Arsenals overhaul, repair and inspection, so in respect to the origin of it's parts, it is a direct from service rifle.
 
"Your mark is more likely the C with a stylised arrow (some call it a Maple Leaf). While the C/l\ was a property mark, the new mark is merely an inspectors stamp."

Could well be....it's tiny and quite faint. It appears to be C with something inside it.
 
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I was wiping the wood down with an oily rag and found one more mark. It's a B inside a circle stamped into the wood right behind the trigger guard. The wood had several patches of black gummy stuff on it....almost like gum on a gym floor after it's been stepped on a 100 times. A little G96 seemed to let me rub it off.

BTW I checked the screw on the mid barrel band and it was quite loose. I could turn it 2-3 revolutions before feeling any resistance. How tight should they be?

Is there any secret to removing the top wood or just unscrew and remove the two barrel bands?

This rifle might be starting to suck me in. :eek:
 
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