No.4 mk1 bolt question

Butcherbill

Butcherbill

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Have a sporter No.4 mk1 I’m cleaning up for a friend, it’s English and 1942 marked. It had a bolt with a hollow bolt knob, #0 bolt head and flat cocking piece. The serial number on the handle had been scrubbed, I’m assuming this was not it’s original bolt? Headspace was not so great, I had a spare #1 head that tightened headspace up a bit (wouldn’t close on no-go or field guages) I had a spare complete bolt with a round cocking piece so I tried it with the original #0 bolt head and headspace tightened up even more. Is it safe to say the round cocking piece is more of an appropriate style of bolt on a ‘41 English No.4?

I don’t think my friend is going to care about the mix and match bolt as the poor rifle has already been Bubba’d, the bayonet lug has been cut off, receiver has been drilled and tapped for a weaver rail as well as a couple stock alterations.

I managed to clean up the stock and gave it a good bath of blo, a rear L 300/600 battle sight and bits were found and is back on. surface rust has been removed and I touched up the bluing, fixed the front sling mount inletting as best as possible. Doesn’t look too bad down the bore after multiple cleaning sessions, has a 2 grove barrel.
 
Go to milsurp site and read up articles by Peter Laidler about Lee Enfield bolt set-up - his various articles will take you through how to fit a replacement bolt body to the receiver through to headspace setting - for example, besides a random replaceable head to get "headspace" correct, you also want to get the "clocking" within specs - not all the bolt body threads nor the bolt heads were threaded perfectly identical to each other - why an armourer would have a dozen or more of each size to find one "correct" for that bolt in that rifle. And the stamped number for size is no longer a slam dunk certainty, if it ever was - can have lower numbers that are LONGER than higher numbers - some have been ground by previous owners; some were made to the machining standards, in effect then. Is all covered in his articles. About only possible confusion is that he generally uses the British term for a part, whereas most of us will use the USA term for that same part - depends, I guess, on your background?
 
To the right individual, with an early No4 that's managed to have its round cocking piece replaced, it's worth more than the rifle.

Round cocking pieces can be found on No4 rifles of just about every manufacture date. I don't believe they are incorrect.

Usually, they were swapped out after an FTR, but not always.

About 40 years ago, an armorer at the Chilliwack base gave me a small cardboard box full of them. There were two dozen of them that were never on a rifle.

I used those knobs on a couple of sporters because I liked to set the bolt on the "half ####" position during hunting treks.

The rest, I sold off to people trying to put their rifles back to original configuration.

I remember a shipment of very early Savage built No4 rifles coming into Alan Lever's warehouse. There were close to 200 rifles, all brand new, old stock, unissued and each was in its own separate cardboard box. I remember that shipment because every one of those rifles had a round cocking piece.
 
Bearhunter, thanks. I thought it would be more correct than the bolt that was on it, more importantly in my mind it give the best headspace should my friend decide to shoot it much.

On topic of the bolt it came with, was it only the No.5 that came with the drilled bolt knob? Or did other No.4 rifles see this as well? I did a bit of searching online and found people saying both.
 
Thanks Woodchopper

Here’s a couple before and some after pics, when I first picked it up it looked a lot worse than it was. Between my parts bin and a gun show I found most of the parts needed, I’m still missing an ejector screw, a sling and I know my friend would like to have a micrometer rear sight so I’ll keep an eye out for those at the next couple of shows this spring.

If it was mine I’d cut the barrel down to 20” and try to remove the worn out rifling at the muzzle and put the rail back on and make a nice truck bush gun, provided it shoots well. The cut off bayonet lug and receiver d&t don’t do it any favours but I have a soft spot for a LE sporter. The poor rifle had its front sling swivel mounted with plated deck screws lol.

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cosmic said:
Looks like its been D+T'd for both the Parker Hale and the Weaver (T-01) mount. Any plans to scope it?
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Not that I know of, my buddy wanted it back to irons. A MK1 micrometer is what he’d like, the MK2 battle sight will do till I find the one he wants. I have the weaver rail it came with, he told me to keep it or toss it. I tend not to throw much away when it comes to gun parts lol.
 
Bb, putting that round cocking piece on that rifle is a waste. IMHO.

Your call, as it's your cocking piece, but I suggest that you clean up the original bolt, and just exchange the bolt heads to get proper headspace.

If you come across an early No4, you will wish you had kept that cocking piece.

Nice job, turned a sow's ear into a silk purse.
 
bearhunter said:
Bb, putting that round cocking piece on that rifle is a waste. IMHO.

Your call, as it's your cocking piece, but I suggest that you clean up the original bolt, and just exchange the bolt heads to get proper headspace.

If you come across an early No4, you will wish you had kept that cocking piece.

Nice job, turned a sow's ear into a silk purse.
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Thanks Bearhunter,

Haha, yeah I hear you and your right. The original bolt and #1 bolt head bring the headspace back into acceptable range but he’s a really good friend of mine that’s done me a couple solids.

I’ll have to reconsider it but I’d rather he have a safe rifle to shoot, he’s not a volume shooter and he doesn’t handload so having the best headspace isn’t a must but it’s nice to know it is. The original bolt and my spare #1 bolt head won’t close on the no-go or field guage, so still safe. It’s actually a hair tighter than my ‘42 LB sporter I’ve been shooting and hunting with for years, which shows no adverse signs on once fired brass.
 
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Butcherbill said:
Thanks Bearhunter,

Haha, yeah I hear you and your right. The original bolt and #1 bolt head bring the headspace back into acceptable range but he’s a really good friend of mine that’s done me a couple solids.

I’ll have to reconsider it but I’d rather he have a safe rifle to shoot, he’s not a volume shooter and he doesn’t handload so having the best headspace isn’t a must but it’s nice to know it is. The original bolt and my spare #1 bolt head won’t close on the no-go or field guage, so still safe. It’s actually a hair tighter than my ‘42 LB sporter I’ve been shooting and hunting with for years, which shows no adverse signs on once fired brass.
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Switching bolt heads won't cause any safety issues at all. But it's your option, not mine.

I've done similar things for good solid friends. Good on you
 
Butcherbill said:
The one thing that surprised my on this rifle was the trigger, it’s got a surprisingly nice two stage trigger for a milsurp.
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That rifle was cut down by someone. Likely they knew what they were doing and reworked the sear contact surfaces, with some judicious polishing and maybe a bit of stoning to reduce creep.
 
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I'd suggest you use a black felt tip pen or some layout blue and test the contact on the recoil lugs. Use whichever bolt has the better contact. You can lap them in with valve grinding compound if necessary.

The cocking piece is wasted on that rifle as Bearhunter said, especially if it's a Long Branch one.

You'll probably need to adjust the front sight blade to zero the rifle.
 
bearhunter said:
Switching bolt heads won't cause any safety issues at all. But it's your option, not mine.

I've done similar things for good solid friends. Good on you
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Well it’s now my rifle so no worries on the bolt/cocking piece front lol. Now to decide what to do with it, provided it shoots accurate. It’s already been d&t and the barrel cut. Was thinking it would be nice to cut the barrel down to 20” or so and put the weaver rail back on. It would make a great compact sporter to hunt with, I already have a sporterized LB No.4 that looks similar but was never cut or d&T’s. I don’t need two similar No.4 sporters and this new one isn’t worth restoring, fingers crossed it shoots.

RRCo. said:
I'd suggest you use a black felt tip pen or some layout blue and test the contact on the recoil lugs. Use whichever bolt has the better contact. You can lap them in with valve grinding compound if necessary.

The cocking piece is wasted on that rifle as Bearhunter said, especially if it's a Long Branch one.

You'll probably need to adjust the front sight blade to zero the rifle.
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I checked both bolts for recoil lug contact and they are both pretty good, the round knob clocks the best with with either bolt heads over the one it came with. It’s not a LB bolt, I have a MK1 micrometer sight I was saving for my ‘42 LB No.4 as well as a couple different height front sight blades in my parts bin. So here’s hoping it shoots well.
 
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It cleaned up well. If you cut the barrel the sight markings won't correspond to the actual ranges anymore, unless you can duplicate the position of a Jungle Carbine foresight and get one of those 800 yard backsights to go with it.
 
Numrich was offering No5 front sights with two different barrel diameters.

There was a special notation at the bottom of the picture.

The smaller diameter is the sight needed for the original No5 barrels, and the larger diameter is for those spinning a cut off No4 barrel on or cutting one back.

I picked up a couple last year for projects on hand.

They may still have some left.
 
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