No 4 MKI T prices

T

TheWhole9Yards

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Hey folks,

I’m in search of a No4 MKI T, how much am I going to have to withdrawal from my piggy bank to get one home? I’m interested in something that is shooter level or better, not interested in something that would lose value if fired.

Any help or guidance is much appreciated

Thanks!
 
6 - 12k, depending of course on condition and maker. Take time to know how to spot fakes - they're around. Anything numbers matching is going to be more, and matching scope and transit case are amongst the rarest.

Solid rifle though and a true piece of history - and most of em would have smashed some Nazis at some point. Best of luck.
 
Kinda want to do some research on them?? Can read that 2.5 MOA at 400 yards was minimum standard to leave Holland and Holland. 3 power scopes. They won that war and some others, but pretty much was by the shooters, not by the rifle. Most store bought cheap Axis rifle combos today will out shoot them. Learn how they can be faked - see the ads on eBay for almost all the exact replica punches to create marks. Learn where the marks were supposed to be. Insist on some provenance - where has it been since released from military? Not silly at all to buy $200 to $500 or more of reference books, if considering a $10k purchase. Price range in Post #2 is on low side of what a complete authentic matching rifle, scope, mounts, transit case and spotting scope, all with matching numbered cases, and papers, will go for.

For starters - no, that was not the Seller's Grandpa's rifle that he brought home from the war. You are to be buying the "stuff" - not the Seller's story.
 
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SteelFlint said:
6 - 12k, depending of course on condition and maker. Take time to know how to spot fakes - they're around. Anything numbers matching is going to be more, and matching scope and transit case are amongst the rarest.

Solid rifle though and a true piece of history - and most of 'em would have smashed some Nazis at some point. Best of luck.
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There were 20 to 1 British vs Canadian No.4(T) rifles. The Long Branches are the rare ones.

For a free on line reference have a look at https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=ri10c.htm
 
IMHO, if you're looking for a shooter, find a No4 rifle that shoots very well, say consistent 2moa with selected ammo, or better with handloads. Around $1000

Then purchase a complete kit, with proper drills/taps, screws, pads, bracket and scope.

Not sure what these are going for now?

Ebay - WW II Enfield No.32 MK III/MK 3 Sniper Scope&Mount&Pad Reproductions RSMWW II Enfield No.32 MK III/MK 3 Sniper Scope&Mount&Pad Reproductions RSM
Brand New
C $751.78Top Rated SellerTop Rated SellerBuy It Now+C $103.61 shipping

Sooooo, for around $2K you can have what you're looking for and as long as it's properly taken care of, price for the complete build can usually be recouped fairly quickly.

Of course, it's not the real thing but a from what I hear, a lot of these builds are being used in the vintage military shoots, put on by clubs.
 
bearhunter said:
IMHO, if you're looking for a shooter, find a No4 rifle that shoots very well, say consistent 2moa with selected ammo, or better with handloads. Around $1000

Then purchase a complete kit, with proper drills/taps, screws, pads, bracket and scope.

Not sure what these are going for now?

Ebay - WW II Enfield No.32 MK III/MK 3 Sniper Scope&Mount&Pad Reproductions RSMWW II Enfield No.32 MK III/MK 3 Sniper Scope&Mount&Pad Reproductions RSM
Brand New
C $751.78Top Rated SellerTop Rated SellerBuy It Now+C $103.61 shipping

Sooooo, for around $2K you can have what you're looking for and as long as it's properly taken care of, price for the complete build can usually be recouped fairly quickly.

Of course, it's not the real thing but a from what I hear, a lot of these builds are being used in the vintage military shoots, put on by clubs.
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I’ve considered this, I have 3 no4s in the collection currently but I’m not sure I could bring myself to do that to one of them. Is there a smith in Canada who is experienced with doing this type of work? I had an M1 Garand headspaced at vulcan, perhaps he could be trusted.
 
I haven't seen many nice No4s for $1000. I have been in the market a few times and never found something I liked for a reasonable price. A mock T build would be super cool...

Nick at Vulcan specializes in military rifles. I'd trust him completely for whatever you have in mind. He's done two M305 and a Garand for me.
 
If making up a simulated 4T, the reproduction scopes can vary. Some are useful sights, others are junk.
LB 4T sets have sold for as much as 15k.
 
TheWhole9Yards said:
I’ve considered this, I have 3 no4s in the collection currently but I’m not sure I could bring myself to do that to one of them. Is there a smith in Canada who is experienced with doing this type of work? I had an M1 Garand headspaced at vulcan, perhaps he could be trusted.
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Again. some reading worth while - not all No. 4's are the exact same receiver - I think it was Maltby that have a higher shoulder on the left side - so the pads do not fit without milling that shoulder away - as a result, that maker was never used to make No. 4 T - I might have the maker wrong - thinking it was Maltby - but could be corrected on that... so, need to get VERY critical, if someone trying to sell you a "original T" built on a Maltby No. 4...
 
If buying a real T, spend a lot of time on "milsurps" forum reading through past threads on the type. There are really no books that pull together all the things you need to look for to verify that a particular example is real. For example, the markings you may find on a genuine example vary through time and there's been the odd bargain found by understanding that. There's many hours of reading on "milsurps" to get it all straight. One pointer, one of the clearest indicators of a rifle being a genuine H&H conversion is a superbly installed front pad. Some machining was done on the side of the action body to get the pad where it needed to be and the join between pad and body should be seamless. Doesn't seem to apply to Long Branch examples which often show a less perfect fit.
Price has gone from slowly increasing to spiking, recently, and I'm not sure this is a great time to be buying one. You must also think about whether you want to use your $8000 "T" to plink at the range. The rifle aren't delicate (although they suffer from all the standard No. 4 issues), but if the all important No. 32 scope breaks down you're going to have to get it fixed. regarding a No. 32 scope I once owned, the retired Brit armourer who re-built it prior to me owning it told me it had come to him straight from India and had been nearly unfixable. Didn't enjoy putting wear and tear on that one.
As someone mentioned above, consider making or having made a repro "T". I have one, built on a Savage rifle, and setting it up so that the bracket was well collimated to the bore was challenging but also fun. With a repro No. 32 scope it now shoots very well, fools everyone at the range, and I'm into it for around $2000. I plink away with it and leave the real "T" in the safe.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
If buying a real T, spend a lot of time on "milsurps" forum reading through past threads on the type. There are really no books that pull together all the things you need to look for to verify that a particular example is real. For example, the markings you may find on a genuine example vary through time and there's been the odd bargain found by understanding that. There's many hours of reading on "milsurps" to get it all straight. One pointer, one of the clearest indicators of a rifle being a genuine H&H conversion is a superbly installed front pad. Some machining was done on the side of the action body to get the pad where it needed to be and the join between pad and body should be seamless. Doesn't seem to apply to Long Branch examples which often show a less perfect fit.
Price has gone from slowly increasing to spiking, recently, and I'm not sure this is a great time to be buying one. You must also think about whether you want to use your $8000 "T" to plink at the range. The rifle aren't delicate (although they suffer from all the standard No. 4 issues), but if the all important No. 32 scope breaks down you're going to have to get it fixed. regarding a No. 32 scope I once owned, the retired Brit armourer who re-built it prior to me owning it told me it had come to him straight from India and had been nearly unfixable. Didn't enjoy putting wear and tear on that one.
As someone mentioned above, consider making or having made a repro "T". I have one, built on a Savage rifle, and setting it up so that the bracket was well collimated to the bore was challenging but also fun. With a repro No. 32 scope it now shoots very well, fools everyone at the range, and I'm into it for around $2000. I plink away with it and leave the real "T" in the safe.

milsurpo
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Sounds like sage advice. I have a No4 MK2 in the collection which holds little historical or sentimental value to me. Perhaps thats a good candidate, looks like I have some research to do.
 
TheWhole9Yards said:
I’ve considered this, I have 3 no4s in the collection currently but I’m not sure I could bring myself to do that to one of them. Is there a smith in Canada who is experienced with doing this type of work? I had an M1 Garand headspaced at vulcan, perhaps he could be trusted.
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My buddy had a garand re-done at vulcan, said he did a fantastic job. All his other work I've seen has been great, give him an email, last time I contacted him he was really quick to get back to me.

I have an n4 getting the faux 'T' job at leeenfieldrestoration right now. But it's not fast. It's been there like a year and a half now. He is a one man show and does these in bunches though. Reminds me to give him a call one of these days.
 
Funny you should mention LER, was on the phone with Stuart yesterday, gave me pricing and like you said the expected wait time is a but much for me. Sounds like he is doing gods work there, bringing sporters back to life! He told me he has over 160 customer rifles right now.

Jon. said:
My buddy had a garand re-done at vulcan, said he did a fantastic job. All his other work I've seen has been great, give him an email, last time I contacted him he was really quick to get back to me.

I have an n4 getting the faux 'T' job at leeenfieldrestoration right now. But it's not fast. It's been there like a year and a half now. He is a one man show and does these in bunches though. Reminds me to give him a call one of these days.
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When 4Ts were set up at H&H, the pads were installed on the receiver, and then finish machined to accept the bracket, to insure that the scope was properly lined up. Not quite the same as installing Weaver bases on a factory drilled and tapped rifle. Don't know what is involved with installing repro bases and the bracket, in addition to drilling and tapping.
I have a No. 4 I put together from parts years ago. Would be an excellent candidate for making a faux 4T, having only shooter and no collector value. As far as faux 4Ts go, making up a TP version with a Lyman Alaskan is an option - Alaskans don't grow on trees, but they do turn up, and are quality sights, better than a questionable repro. The Brits sneered at them, but there were even a few TPs set up with Weaver 330s. I used a 330 on a faux 03A4, and it is actually a better scope than one would expect at first glance.
 
Ian Skennerton - "The Lee Enfield" or "All About Enfields" or something to that effect, is the de facto bible on all things Lee, including the T. It's textbook prices but well worth the money.
 
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