No .416 love?

[gunsmith1951]

Just like hunting boots, not everybody likes the same boots for millions of different reasons.
If it fits ,is comfy and does the job then so be it!

 

[toebako]

I have had 3 416's. Two Rigby's and now the Ruger. I found the 350 mag tip not so good and had to track a few critters with that bullet. The barnes TSX is a hammer. Bang lights out. The Alaskan is my favorite so far but the Rigby was beautiful. I prefer short and lighter now.

 

[Pickles]

Sometimes the big bores act like varmint rifles.

 

[Republic of Alberta]

I have some 340g Woodleighs to try in my Rigby. At 2500+ fps they should expand very wide and leave a fair sized hole, still should be enough penetration on black bear sized game.

Any one try them?

 

[Gatehouse]

The bear I shot last year ran about 100 yds, but it was about the easiest blood trail to follow, that I've ever seen.

The hole that 400gr slug left in the bear was impressive, the outcome inevitable.


FWIW, most recoil tables list ~15-18 ft-lbs more recoil for the .416RM over the .375H&H.
Something in the 45-48 ft-lb range for the .375H&H compared to 60-64 for the .416RM.

I've shot bears (some pretty big ones, too!) with .223, .270, 7RM, 303, 30-06, 300WSM, 300WM, 338WM, 375H&H, 375 Ruger and maybe a few others. None of them made it 100 yards! Longest one IIRC was my first record book bear, with a 7RM and a 175gr Nosler Partition. Probably made it 50-60 yards.

Not sure what this tells us about the .416s, but there you go.

 

[X-fan]

Crap, I guess all the smaller cartridges will have to be discontinued if a 416 Rem Mag isn't considered overkill for the vast majority... All you guys who consider your various 338's adequate better look at making them bigger...

If you don't think a 416 Rem Mag is more than what one needs to kill an animal in North America, please explain that theory...

I am not disputing your choice of caliber... it is an excellent caliber... not something for all shooters though.

If dead is dead, how much deader is it with a 416?

As a bow hunter I acknowledge a valid point here and would like to add some more.

Provided you use something like a Barnes TSX death is certain with a 243.
Just like the bow exact time of death is not so certain.
If the exact time (or place) of death is not important then neither is the choice of caliber.

With a 416 death is not a matter of IF.
When...Is usually a matter of now.

Is the 416 more significant than a 338?...IMHO...Yes.
I have never seen any animal run away looking unhurt after being bashed with a 416.
I have seen just that (several times) with a 338 Win.

Is it better than a 375?..I cant tell.
A 375 loaded with a TSX (or similar) is a fearsome tool.
With old school bullets I have seen some animals act bullet proof with the 375.
Not so with a super premium bullet.

Given 8.5 pound rifles the recoil of a 375H&H is a lot less.
90 guys out of 100 are better with a 375H&H (or Ruger).

If you are in the ten...Welcome to the club.

 

[Demonical]

In the case of that bear, last year, I hit it squarely through the heart, as you see in the picture. It had a huge hole blown through it.
But I have often seen heart-shot animals, react that way; in fact, I expect deer to react like that, and run hell-bent for election, after taking one in the heart. But it's a very short abrupt run and they pile up, usually within 100 yards.

Seems to me this bear did the same thing.

I've got a few bullets for my .416, that I still hafta try: 400gr Trophy Bonded & 400gr Nosler Partition in particular. Either of those would also hit like the 'Hammer-of Thor'.

I'd like to try 400gr solids, if that were legal...

 

[Boomer]

I like the .416 Rigby and by default the .416 Weatherby which is simply the belted version of thr Rigby with a double radius shoulder. IMHO, these cartridges define the limit of a general purpose hunting cartridge, anything bigger should be regarded as a specialized dangerous game stopper. While the .416 Remington is alright, IMHO Remington dropped the ball by bringing this thing out on the 8mm Mag case rather than the .404 Jeffery case which became the basis of the Ultramag cartridges some years later. The advantages of a .416 Ultramag and a .450 Ultramag are so obvious compared to what we have now that I don't know why they haven't been marketed.

 

[todbartell]

Very strange Todd, the animals I've hit with my .416s have dropped on the spot. I know all animals will react differently to a hit but the .416s seem to make a big difference. Does an 06 kill better than a 243?

only killed a 4x4 mulie with my 243 but it tipped over in fairly short order, even with a teeny 55gr Ballistic tip through the lungs

I'm not saying a 416 isn't effective, it just didn't seem to work as quick as I'd imagined. 2 animals with one bullet type isn't a very big sample to make a decision on, but compared to the game I seen my buddy shoot with his 375 H&H, my dad with a 300 Mag, and the stuff I had killed with 7mm's - I was expecting some big impact kills! not 50 yard tip overs

 

[Northman999]

I looked at the 416's when I was considering what to get as a meaningful step up from my .338 win mag. I eventually chose the .375 RUM based on availability and cost of components, and versatility of the cartridge. The 416's are definitely nothing to scoff at however, particularly if you're not shooting longer distances.

 

[BigUglyMan]

Forget the "New King"... the 416 Rigby is the Emperor!

 

[Republic of Alberta]

only killed a 4x4 mulie with my 243 but it tipped over in fairly short order, even with a teeny 55gr Ballistic tip through the lungs

I'm not saying a 416 isn't effective, it just didn't seem to work as quick as I'd imagined. 2 animals with one bullet type isn't a very big sample to make a decision on, but compared to the game I seen my buddy shoot with his 375 H&H, my dad with a 300 Mag, and the stuff I had killed with 7mm's - I was expecting some big impact kills! not 50 yard tip overs

Part of this is the heavy built bullets in the 416. They don't give the rapid expansion of some of the 30 cal or even 375 cal bullets. Cut a 400g interlock in half to see how thick the jacket is, it is very very thick. Even the speer 350g mag tip is built very heavy. Nice to break bones with but dosn't always give that impressive impact sound and reaction yoiu can get with other options.

One time a shot a coyote with the 400g interlock and the bullet had very little expansion, the coyote ran off quite a ways. 22-250 would have been more impressive.

 

[Demonical]

I like the .416 Rigby and by default the .416 Weatherby which is simply the belted version of thr Rigby with a double radius shoulder. IMHO, these cartridges define the limit of a general purpose hunting cartridge, anything bigger should be regarded as a specialized dangerous game stopper. While the .416 Remington is alright, IMHO Remington dropped the ball by bringing this thing out on the 8mm Mag case rather than the .404 Jeffery case which became the basis of the Ultramag cartridges some years later. The advantages of a .416 Ultramag and a .450 Ultramag are so obvious compared to what we have now that I don't know why they haven't been marketed.

Boomer, explain this please.

The .416RM is a superb cartridge. Carried in Africa by many PHs, from what I read on Accurate Reloading and other African hunting websites.
Way more economical then the Rigby... I dunno about the RUM, Ultramag etc...

What are the advantages of the Ultramag and the .404 Jeffery case?

 

[westcoaster]

Forget the "New King"... the 416 Rigby is the Emperor!

Plenty of love for the venerable Rigby.

 

[X-fan]

What are the advantages of the Ultramag and the .404 Jeffery case?

Same velocity much lower pressure.
I understand some African hunters find the Rem a bit hot (pressure wise).
They prefer the 416 Rigby, but IMHO its bigger than need be with modern powders.

 

[209jones]

I wanted a 40 cal or bigger to play with this year, thought about a bunch of different stuff out there. Finally settled on the 450/400, if it wasn't that, the next choice was the Rigby.
When I got to looking at the both of them, I decided the 450/400 was enough for what I wanted this time. I definitely like the Rigby though.

 

[MTM]

only killed a 4x4 mulie with my 243 but it tipped over in fairly short order, even with a teeny 55gr Ballistic tip through the lungs

I'm not saying a 416 isn't effective, it just didn't seem to work as quick as I'd imagined. 2 animals with one bullet type isn't a very big sample to make a decision on, but compared to the game I seen my buddy shoot with his 375 H&H, my dad with a 300 Mag, and the stuff I had killed with 7mm's - I was expecting some big impact kills! not 50 yard tip overs

To be honest I've only used it on Elk and one Grizzly, I have seen my buddies whack a few animals though. Every animal will react differently to a hit, I just happened to have the 416 hit ones drop. Smaller high speed guns do make some impressive kills but I've seen not so good ones too. I wasn't putting down the 243 but when you mention shooting Deer with a 55 gr. balistic tip..... Holy moly, maybe O.K. in your hands but don't encourage the newbies.

 

[brybenn]

That's a nice hole thru the heart on that bear. A blind man could follow that blood trail. If your bullet passed 2-3" higher and took out the major arteries just above the heart that bear would not have moved. The blood pressure drop would have been way to much and the muscles can't react down he goes. I don't know where you're from but in ontario solids are legal for hunting. Frowned upon because most hunter tote 30 cals or less but a 416 round in the 400gr class will leave a decent hole in a bear and smash anything in the body on its way thru. I wanted a 416 ruger to play with but the ammo is scare to say the least and at the time I didn't want to handload. I ended up buying a double rifle in 45-70 and will be reloading this summer. I don't believe these cannons are needed to hunt moose and bear but why be under gunned? If one can handle these guns why not use them that's why they were built. I target shoot with my 12ga slug gun because I like seeing a big hole in the target without using a spotting scope. If I had more cash I'd get a ruger in 450/400 but I'd like to fill the 416 gap someday

 

[Boomer]

Boomer, explain this please.

The .416RM is a superb cartridge. Carried in Africa by many PHs, from what I read on Accurate Reloading and other African hunting websites.
Way more economical then the Rigby... I dunno about the RUM, Ultramag etc...

What are the advantages of the Ultramag and the .404 Jeffery case?

The advantage to the African, Asian, Australian, hunter is that the large case capacity of the Rigby, Weatherby, and .404 Jeffery (Ultramag) reduces the incidence of excess pressure in hot conditions, without the load becoming anemic. While the new temperature stable powders have gone a long way to addressing that issue, not everyone uses them. The advantage to the North American hunter is velocity as we as a group worship the "Velocity God", and nothing produces velocity like large case capacity. My Rigby load drove 350 gr X and Mag Tip bullets well in excess of 2850 fps, without bursting at the seams, providing .30/06 trajectories, and devastating up close power which is comforting when the rifle is used in the protection role. Comparably, the .375 H&H or Ruger, which are powerful cartridges in their own right, get 2850 with 260-270 gr bullets.

Remington's .416 has proven itself in the game fields, and has been used by successfully against lions by PHs of no less fame than Ross Seyfried. There's even one example that accompanies tourists on coastal hikes around here chambered in a Brno 602. But when compared to the large case .416s, the Remington/Ruger versions are like comparing a .308 to a .300 magnum. The .308 has proven itself in the game fields as well, yet there are those who want a .300 magnum if they carry a .30 caliber rifle.

When it comes to protection rifles, if I were to buy another .416, it would probably be a .416 Ultra (Dakota) to take advantage of the inexpensive brass compared to the cost of Rigby or Weatherby brass. I have nearly 400 pieces of .375 Ultra brass and the cost of acquiring it was far less painful than it was to acquire 200 grounds of Norma .416 Rigby brass at $180/50 in the late '90s. Another advantage of Ultramag brass is that more rounds can be fitted in a magazine than is possible with a Rigby or Weatherby chambered rifle, without altering the magbox.

My .375 Ultra compares favorably with the .416 Remington or Ruger; we see that I can drive a 350 gr bullet (SD .356) to 2350 fps from a 20" barrel where the .416s can drive a 400 gr bullet (SD .330) to 2300 from a 20" barrel. But a big case .416 will drive that same 400 gr bullet 2500 fps in the case of the Dakota and 2600 in the case of the Rigby/Weatherby when shot from short barrels. An increase of 300 fps represents an advantage for the hunter who can make use of it.

 

[Dogleg]

I used to get Norma .416 Rigby brass on ebay for $80 a bag, back when you could do that. The Hornady stuff doesn't cost all that much either.

How many Ultramag cartridges can you load down in the 602 mag box? I get 4 down with the .416 Rigby and 6 down with the .375 H&H.