I have a no.5 mk.1 that, although seems to shoot well, deforms the brass for about 1/4" above the rim. So the ends of the ejected brass look kinda lopsided. I realise a picture would have been helpful, but I left all the messed up cases at the range. So in summary, is this rifle safe to shoot?
No.5 Lee Enfield question
- Thread starter C.Magnet
- Start date
.. It's far from unusual for Lee Enfields to produce the ring around the base, as you describe. When "cases" are reloaded this is the point where case separation occurs. The British recognizsed this issue long ago, and developed and issued, a "Stuck Case Removal Tool"....... To be on the safe side, and although probably not necessary, for your own pience of mind, it might be worthwhile to have the headspace checked. ( Go-NoGo gauges ) ..... David k
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
what he said
aspenkarius
Member
- Location
- West central alberta.
And if you reload be willing to toss a lot of once fired, I wasnt and now have a busted case stuck in my no4. I've heard good things about using easy outs instead of the extractors for removing shells.
HEADSPACE doesn't give you expanded brass: OVERSIZED CHAMBERS give you expanded brass.
After the ammunition disaster of early WWI, the British went to larger chambers on their rifles. They also tightened up on the ammo factories.
Modern ammunition is to SAAMI specs, not military. MUCH modern ammunition is undersized and so expands much more than would milspec casings.
To minimise the stretch, get the longest life from your brass, reduce any heart palpitations and increase the safety margin, all at the same time, put a rubber O-ring around the base of your cartridge on the first firing. This will centralise the case in the chamber and keep expansion uniform and to a safe minimum all the way around the case. After that, you just neck-size your brass and load sanely and you will get long life from the cases and no MORE stretch.
Hope this helps.
After the ammunition disaster of early WWI, the British went to larger chambers on their rifles. They also tightened up on the ammo factories.
Modern ammunition is to SAAMI specs, not military. MUCH modern ammunition is undersized and so expands much more than would milspec casings.
To minimise the stretch, get the longest life from your brass, reduce any heart palpitations and increase the safety margin, all at the same time, put a rubber O-ring around the base of your cartridge on the first firing. This will centralise the case in the chamber and keep expansion uniform and to a safe minimum all the way around the case. After that, you just neck-size your brass and load sanely and you will get long life from the cases and no MORE stretch.
Hope this helps.
@ Aspenkarius:
FORGET you ever heard about Easy-outs or threading Taps or anything else. You do NOT want a completely-scrood chamber in your rifle.
Try what we did in the Army: run another round up the pipe, let it latch onto the on stuck in the Chamber, then give the Bolt good, smart yank to the rear. Chances are 98 out of 100 that it will bring them BOTH out.
If that fails, THEN get onto the EE and find yourself a proper Stuck Case Remover. It is the PROPER tool for the job and it WORKS. Worth maybe 15 bucks.
As an interim measure, I have found that you can run a cleaning rod THROUGH the broken casing and out the Muzzle, attach a TIGHT patch and pull the rod out of the rear of the rifle. Generally it will bring the offending cartridge with it.
If your cases are breaking off IN the rifle, chances are 9 out of 10 that they are TOO LONG. Keep your brass trimmed to 2.20". MUCH .303 brass lengthens far MORE in the reloading die than it does in the Rifle. The Americans don't understand the .303. Besides, almost any American knows that the .303 is junk.
Using an O-ring on the FIRST firing and then neck-sizing only can give you 20 shots per casing and still looking good.
Try it.
Works for me.
FORGET you ever heard about Easy-outs or threading Taps or anything else. You do NOT want a completely-scrood chamber in your rifle.
Try what we did in the Army: run another round up the pipe, let it latch onto the on stuck in the Chamber, then give the Bolt good, smart yank to the rear. Chances are 98 out of 100 that it will bring them BOTH out.
If that fails, THEN get onto the EE and find yourself a proper Stuck Case Remover. It is the PROPER tool for the job and it WORKS. Worth maybe 15 bucks.
As an interim measure, I have found that you can run a cleaning rod THROUGH the broken casing and out the Muzzle, attach a TIGHT patch and pull the rod out of the rear of the rifle. Generally it will bring the offending cartridge with it.
If your cases are breaking off IN the rifle, chances are 9 out of 10 that they are TOO LONG. Keep your brass trimmed to 2.20". MUCH .303 brass lengthens far MORE in the reloading die than it does in the Rifle. The Americans don't understand the .303. Besides, almost any American knows that the .303 is junk.
Using an O-ring on the FIRST firing and then neck-sizing only can give you 20 shots per casing and still looking good.
Try it.
Works for me.
And me!!
I'm thinking this forum needs a big headspace sticky at the top!!
Also might I add that in the literally 1000's of .303 handloads that I've shot I've had a grand total of 1 case get stuck in the chamber. Might I add that Smellie's good old slap the next round into the broken case and yank her out trick worked for me!
"...this forum needs a big headspace sticky..." Yep. However, the headspace issue with Lee-Enfields primarily applies to sportized No. 1 and No. 4 rifles. And any rifle that had anything whatever to do with Century Arms(mostly). Not so much with No. 5's. except the ones cobbled together out of No. 4 receivers. A Real No. 5 receiver is different from a No. 4 and is easily discernable.
"...what we did in the Army..." The entire CF would have a stroke if you had been caught. Never had any case separation problems with the No. 4's I had on my MIU. Or the ammo we got. Saw one case of really friggin' good 1944 vintage DA ammo. The rest was crappy 1985 vintage IVI.
"...what we did in the Army..." The entire CF would have a stroke if you had been caught. Never had any case separation problems with the No. 4's I had on my MIU. Or the ammo we got. Saw one case of really friggin' good 1944 vintage DA ammo. The rest was crappy 1985 vintage IVI.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
if you wnat someone to look it over I can check it out for you, I can even check the headspace but I don't think thats the problem. Oversized chamber would be my guess, and if you reload there are ways to work around that issue.
@ Sunray:
I am talking about what was common practice before we transitioned to the C1. Your IVI-85 ammo was still 20-odd years in the future.
Troopies were expected to be able to think for themselves and keep their equipment operational, not just sit down and cry and wait for an Armourer to come by. We were taught by WW2 combat veterans who used this as their normal means of clearing a bad round from a rifle. NOT everyone was issued a Ruptured Case Extractor; you were lucky if there was ONE for a Platoon. That is WHY they are expensive today. So you LISTENED to the old guys and they taught you how to keep your rifle working. After all, if we had got into a war (which looked very possible for a long time) jammed-up rifles are pretty useless.
Guys, you CAN use your FL die for neck-sizing only: put a NICKEL between the shellholder and the bottom of the die, lock it in like that, take the Nickal out. Works.
Some of the EARLY Ross Mark IIs had super-generous chambers. I have one here that is just ama-zing in that regard. Shoots nice, though.
You use the O-rings on first firing of brass but you can use it on FL sized brass as well. I use pony-tail ties (500 for a buck). Holds the case back against the bolt-face, does away with ANY "headspace" issues, centralizes brass in the chamber for concentric expansion with no weak areas..... all at once.
Good luck!
I am talking about what was common practice before we transitioned to the C1. Your IVI-85 ammo was still 20-odd years in the future.
Troopies were expected to be able to think for themselves and keep their equipment operational, not just sit down and cry and wait for an Armourer to come by. We were taught by WW2 combat veterans who used this as their normal means of clearing a bad round from a rifle. NOT everyone was issued a Ruptured Case Extractor; you were lucky if there was ONE for a Platoon. That is WHY they are expensive today. So you LISTENED to the old guys and they taught you how to keep your rifle working. After all, if we had got into a war (which looked very possible for a long time) jammed-up rifles are pretty useless.
Guys, you CAN use your FL die for neck-sizing only: put a NICKEL between the shellholder and the bottom of the die, lock it in like that, take the Nickal out. Works.
Some of the EARLY Ross Mark IIs had super-generous chambers. I have one here that is just ama-zing in that regard. Shoots nice, though.
You use the O-rings on first firing of brass but you can use it on FL sized brass as well. I use pony-tail ties (500 for a buck). Holds the case back against the bolt-face, does away with ANY "headspace" issues, centralizes brass in the chamber for concentric expansion with no weak areas..... all at once.
Good luck!
aspenkarius
Member
- Location
- West central alberta.
not talking jamming it in just getting a bite on the brass...that being said its not my idea, just repeating what i was told...also the extraction tools are hard to find. i couldnt find one on the EE and my WTB add has been up for a week.
... One other option, that MAY work: Take out the bolt,hold the rifle vertically and give it a sharp rap down on a hard surface. The stuck case just MAY drop clear. .... A proper stuck case remover is really the way to go, even if they area bit hard to locate. .... David K
I have found that sticking a cleaning rod with a brush into the chamber will pull the case out.
I had not heard about the rubber O ring trick until a few years ago. prior to that (for about 30 years of reloading the 303) I lubed the case before firing it (modest pressure load. This allowed the case to set back without stretching and fire form to the large chamber.
I had not heard about the rubber O ring trick until a few years ago. prior to that (for about 30 years of reloading the 303) I lubed the case before firing it (modest pressure load. This allowed the case to set back without stretching and fire form to the large chamber.
