No H4895 Varget substitute...success

WhelanLad

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hey i cant get any h4895 ... but can get varget still easily.
we wanna load these 150gr hot cors mildly for the Partner , will not be shooting game over 200meters an a fair bit of practise before hand-

in another thread spoke about using 303 data which is down around say 38gr of Varget , whereas the 308 is starting a bit up in the 40s..

any issues with using the Varget at 38gr charge start to see what we can work up slowly from there in terms of accuracy over speed- more likea hot rod 30-30 would be ideal but varget wont go that low unlike the 4895....

so, seeing the 303 data works for the older rifles, i dont see it being a problem loading in the modern 308? but i would like to put it out ther an see if anyone says different?

ps- we pick up the Franchi 308 this week :) getting keen for it all.
 
Lyman Manual #50

Varget with 150 grain bullets Start 42.5 - Max 47.0 - pressure 58,000P - 2890fps - from their 24 in bbl
 
46gr with a 155gr match bullet is a very common competition load. 42gr or so with a 150gr should be a good lighter load. Can't see that it would do any harm to start at 38gr.
 
I've used 45.something grains of Varget in 308 Win and a 155 gr bullet with most exceleent results.
Your mileage may vary.
 
42.5gr with a 168 is mild and accurate, I'd go 43gr with 150.
For low recoil though for kids, I drop down to 125gr bullets, SST or Accubond.
 
You don’t say what the rifle is. 44 and over is definitely a ‘work up to that’ load. 46.8 and over has welded the odd gun shut with 155 grain bullets and stiff extraction in others. Target rifles are a different animal from any given sporter. YMMV.
 
interesting set of replies

alot of guys answered .308 winchester load data with 150gr projectile question that wasnt really asked LOL


all good...... nevermind , dont worry lol

picking said .308 up today an will go ahead an develop my own load that ticks all the boxes for mild recoiling deer getter to 200m kind of style with said 150gr hot cor and Varget lol.
 
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46gr with a 155gr match bullet is a very common competition load. 42gr or so with a 150gr should be a good lighter load. Can't see that it would do any harm to start at 38gr.
nah cheers, i spose i am a little alarmed by some readings around the 60% rule with 4895 an some other forum talk about having charges real low with unsuitable powder etc.... i was hoping someone else had played with this in real time an would chime in RE varget down 70% charge

i mean the varget is close burn rate to 4895 , it isnt super fast nor super slow, so i think dropping those few GR will work no worries.
ive done similiar in a 30-06 but im fairly sure i used the 4895 as had a little left over from a mates reloadng session....

will start there anyway an slowly move up until the recoil kicks in for Her an make sure theres no issue with the brass or necks etc...
will make a review post with the gun an load development as i go along
 
WhelanLad, many shooters are anal about the air space left unfilled in the case, between the bullet and powder column.

Mostly it isn't a problem other than some also believe too much air space will have a negative effect on accuracy and velocity extreme spreads.

I know a couple of long range shooters that won't use a powder if it doesn't touch the bottom of the bullet when it's seated.

If you have a 25-40% capacity void under your bullet, it may be prudent to use a small bit of Dacron or similar filler to keep the powder column against the primer flash hole, so the column is in place every time you shoot, no matter what angle you're shooting.

I have noticed when the powder I'm using isn't bulky enough to fill the case to the bullet I seem to get more unexplained "flyers"

Maybe it's just coincidence? Whatever, it's a situation I avoid if possible.
 
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interesting set of replies

alot of guys answered .308 winchester load data with 150gr projectile question that wasnt really asked LOL


all good...... nevermind , dont worry lol

picking said .308 up today an will go ahead an develop my own load that ticks all the boxes for mild recoiling deer getter to 200m kind of style with said 150gr hot cor and Varget lol.

For what it's worth, the Sierra #5 reloading manual groups 150 and 155 grain bullets on the same page, listing the same load data.
 
The h4895 reduced load of 60% of the max load of by weight. In the 4570 trapdoor (similar data for 43 Mauser), are often the less then 50% of the case volume when the bullet is seated. I've used 28gr in a 43 Mauser case. It did have velocity spread but was running very low pressure. I wouldn't worry about any type of danger. H4895 is a fast powder that doesn't mind low volumes at all. But will have erratic velocity if too low.

It's a stable powder for fairly low charges though. Ideally above 50% case volume once the bullet is seated. It's similar to titegroup in that ability. I wouldn't be opposed to putting 3gr of titegroup in a 308 case and a cast bullet seated on top.

Hodgdon listed between 8 and 9.7 gr of titegroup in a 308 case with bullets ranging from 168 to 220 gr Jacketed at 1050fps if you want to go that route. Titegroup is cheap and always in stock on this side of the world

8gr with the 168gr to 9.7 with the 220gr

Personally I'd try target at the same volumes as h4895.

Imr3031 runs pretty similar to h4895 even using the 60% of max load rule for h4895 if you can find that for sale
 
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There is also a bit of reading in the Lee Reloading manual, second edition, about reducing loads. There is some data listed for cast bullets, but there is also a bit of (mostly anecdotal) background on loading reduced jacketed rounds.
 
I was wondering why so many people were giving you their high end hunting or target loads, ha ha.

Hodgdon now has a reduced load chart on their website, are you stuck on Varget? I know, the powder that you have is most likely the only one you can get, I totally understand there. The Hodgdon data only shows a 125gr bullet as the max though, which is annoying but has STABall 6.5, which is easier to find, and a bunch of older stuff.

I have the 308 specific manual, I just looked, if you want the actual page feel free to PM me but it looks like the start load from Hornady for Varget, 150gr bullets is 35.9gr running around 2300fps, up to 44.9gr at 2700fps. Sierra has a start load of 41.4gr listed, 44.8gr max. Speer lists 43-47gr for their 150gr bullets.

No idea why Hornady shows such a low start load, I do not have a new Hornady book to verify, just this caliber specific manual.
 
I was wondering why so many people were giving you their high end hunting or target loads, ha ha.

Hodgdon now has a reduced load chart on their website, are you stuck on Varget? I know, the powder that you have is most likely the only one you can get, I totally understand there. The Hodgdon data only shows a 125gr bullet as the max though, which is annoying but has STABall 6.5, which is easier to find, and a bunch of older stuff.

I have the 308 specific manual, I just looked, if you want the actual page feel free to PM me but it looks like the start load from Hornady for Varget, 150gr bullets is 35.9gr running around 2300fps, up to 44.9gr at 2700fps. Sierra has a start load of 41.4gr listed, 44.8gr max. Speer lists 43-47gr for their 150gr bullets.

No idea why Hornady shows such a low start load, I do not have a new Hornady book to verify, just this caliber specific manual.
Legend mate. Thanks alot.
Please PM me page
 
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