No lead bullets in S&W 586?

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bamboo633

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I recently purchased a S&W 586-8 handgun in 38 Special/357 Magnum (Identical to a 686 but blued). My first day out with it I fired 12 rounds of 38 Special 158gr lead SWC followed by 6 rounds of 357 Magnum Sellier & Bellot 158gr FMJ.

The bullet on the final round of the Sellier & Bellot FMJ ripped itself apart in the barrel. Half of the jacket stayed in the entrance to the barrel and jammed the gun (thankfully, or I could have put another round into it).

I contacted Sellier & Bellot and gave them pictures of the jammed round and the half bullet and asked for a refund on the ammo as it is obviously defective. I can not risk firing the rest of the rounds.

This is the message they sent me back:

"I have received report from our technical department.

It says that the problem is that you used 38 special lead bullets in S&W 357 Magnum 586-8.
Because of this, the barrel was dirty from lead.
And because of that, there was more force then there should be so the jacket broke.

We would recommend to not shoot 38 special lead bullets from your gun.

I am really sorry but in this case, we are not able to compensate you in any way."

Is this true? I have never heard this before? Surely there are many people firing lead bullets from 586 and 686 revolvers?
 
I’ve fired maybe 20,000 lead rounds through my 686s with not one issue. I’ve never done any special lead removal either.
 
bamboo633 said:
Do you ever follow your lead shooting with FMJ rounds? Is this dangerous and I have just never heard of it?
Click to expand...
I’ve shot the occasional hot jacketed .357 loads through my revolvers and never had an issue. I don’t understand S&B’s response—lead .38 ammo is super common and does not pose a risk.
 
What a load of bunk from S&B..If thats the response given by one of their technical people, then I dont want anything to do with their products if their other technical people are as knowledgeable. Really makes you wonder.
dB
 
Smith and Wesson indicates that any commercially loaded ammunition, correct to the caliber of the firearm, and adhering to SAAMI specifications is recommended for use in their firearms. Nowhere do they indicate that lead (non-jacketed) ammunition should not be used.

From the S&W website

————————————————————-snip——————————————
INFORMATION

A firearm and ammunition are a system. Their performance is closely related.

You are responsible for selecting ammunition that meets industry standards and is appropriate for this firearm. Use ONLY commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute. NEVER use non-standard, reloaded, or "handloaded" ammunition which has not been subjected to internal ballistic pressure testing.

Ammunition, especially reloaded or handloaded ammunition, may have many manufacturing and quality variables (such as type and amount of gun powder). Any ammunition that is improperly manufactured, even the slightest degree, may fail to fire or may generate excessive internal pressures which can damage or even rupture the firearm, causing personal injury to the shooter or those in the immediate vicinity.

Use only ammunition specifically recommended by Smith & Wesson for your firearm. Never mix ammunition!

MANUFACTURERS

Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI).

Be certain all ammunition you use complies with the SAAMI specifications. If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification.

If you would like any further information on specific ammunition, you may contact one of the major ammunition manufacturers listed below:

CorBon/Glaser
1311 Industry Road
Sturgis, SD 57785
800-626-7266
www.corbon.com

Federal Cartridge Corporation
900 Ehlen Drive
Anoka, MN 55303
800-322-2342
www.federalcartridge.com

Hornady Mfg. Co.
Box 1848
Grand Island, NE 68802 1849
800-338-3220
www.hornady.com

Olin Corporation
Winchester Division
427 N Shamrock St
East Alton, IL 62024
800-356-2666
www.olin.com

Remington Arms Co
14 Hoefler Avenue
Ilion, NY 13357
315-895-3200 or
800-852-4236
www.remington.com
 
Sounds like S&B is full of BS. People have been shooting lead through revolvers since revolvers were invented. Twelve rounds isn’t a significant amount and I don’t think that it would cause much leading in the barrel.

Is there any play in the cylinder? Perhaps the timing is off a little?
 
The gun is tight, no play. I should also mention that the lead 38 rounds were also factory loads.

After having the gun checked out, I took it to the range again yesterday and put 2 boxes of 38 through it followed by a box of 357 Mag jacketed soft points. No problems. I think the gun is fine.
 
It sounds like S&B are pulling your chain.

The response should read like this:

" Dear small / single customer,

We are a big company, and rich people don't get rich by handing out money. We feel that you are NOT actually capable of damaging our company in any way, so we are going to blow smoke up your butt.
Here is our so called technical advisers (which is just a guy we hired, that is good at telling stories)

Technical dude - BS.... BS...... BS....

Thank you, and NEVER contact us again"

Sound about right?

I got one of those letters myself from Browning Canada when my 1800$ Maxus broke after 125 target rounds.
 
Every 357 in the world can shoot lead 38 special. Period. And most do because of the lower recoil and economy factor. Tell S&B to shove their technical advice up their overpressure pipe.
 
Just adding on to my previous post—.38 Special ammo does not have enough muzzle velocity to appreciably deposit much lead residue, especially after 12 rounds. I’m very disappointed in S&B’s response.
 
I'd suggest that it's not the S&B ammo or the fact that you shot lead .38's. But it's quite possible that your new gun built up some lead which did cause a problem.

I post that because I've had three new guns that were intended to be shot with lead rounds and which did suffer from lead build up in their early stages of shooting. But with a couple of cleanings and continuing to shoot a mix of lead and jacketed the barrels burnished away the burrs or other features that caused the lead buildup after a few hundred rounds. Since that time they don't build up any significant lead and I can shoot any manner of lead and jacketed mixings.

One of my guns that suffered from this was a .22 pistol that got so bad that it was throwing bullets over about a 3 ft diameter at 15 yards. When I pushed a bore brush through the barrel tubular "shells" of lead buildup came out the other end. I literally had enough lead to make a new bullet. That same gun had some but no where near as much lead one more time and after that it's been 100% fine with no build up that I can detect other than the odd fleck on the cleaning patches. The other two guns shot with primarily lead were not as bad but they did have significant lead buildups early on and were fine after a while. And another that only saw jacketed started with around a foot or more diameter groups at 12 yards and closed in to give really tight groups that would match any general purpose production pistol after around 200 rounds.

So keep an eye on it but continue to shoot lead. But clean it a bit more regularly before shooting jacketed. And in not much more shooting I bet it's fine with switching back and forth at will.
 
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