No staking required?

[triplepete]

Young Manufacturing doesn't stake gas keys. And tour of factory.

http://http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/10/young-manufacturing-factory-tour/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2014-02-11&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

To Stake or Not to Stake
There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Many an “expert” (including me) has advocated or indicated a preference of having the gas key staked. Young Manufactuering’s opinion is that they will not stake keys, nor have they since 1991, and this has never been even a minor issue from customers.

Per YM, the US mil-spec assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked and sealed with Permatex gasket sealer. Contrary to some popular opinions, staking does not “seal” the gas key, and in reality only has one function: to keep the screws from backing out. In addition, staking can cause problems. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds, you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. Although required, to YM’s knowledge, this is a process no one other than YM does.

To complete Permatex sealing and prevent the screw from backing out, they first clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. They then clean the oil from the screw threads, apply a light coating of Permatex high strength threadlocker gel to the bottom of the key, and allow the whole thing to cure for 60 minutes. Next, they coat the screw threads with the same gel and install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds.

Even the really nerdy AR builder rarely, if ever, assemble a carrier key with Permatex because of this precise and somewhat delicate procedure of potentially gluing shut the vent holes. In fact, I know of no one who has even done it. It is a task left to professionals such as YM, and if the top BCG manufacturer says staking is unnecessary and potentially decreases reliability, I for one believe them.

- See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/10/young-manufacturing-factory-tour/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2014-02-11&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter#sthash.GNMZjsVU.dpuf

 

[Gunnerlove]

Thread locker releases when heated, gas system parts get hot, bolt keys are part of the gas system this would make thread locker an unsuitable retention method.
Any reasonable amount of gasket sealer will get blown out of the way by the first round, Colt has been getting by for the last 50 years.

and if the top BCG manufacturer says staking is unnecessary and potentially decreases reliability, I for one believe them

I agree, and if Colt, LMT, BCM, Daniel Defence ect all stake their keys, there might be a very good reason behind staking.

Magazine articles like this make me want to scream.

 

[TDC]

Thread locker releases when heated, gas system parts get hot, bolt keys are part of the gas system this would make thread locker an unsuitable retention method.
Any reasonable amount of gasket sealer will get blown out of the way by the first round, Colt has been getting by for the last 50 years.


I agree, and if Colt, LMT, BCM, Daniel Defence ect all stake their keys, there might be a very good reason behind staking.

Magazine articles like this make me want to scream.

Agreed. YM explains what staking does but fails to understand that it is but another insurance measure against bcg failure. Staking won't hurt anything so why not stake it?

Last I checked YM doesn't make firearms or parts for he military, they're a competition based company.

Tdc

 

[TRG-42]

First off most of YM distributors ( such as Rainier Arms ) stake the carrier anyways so its a moot point.

The Les Baer carriers available from Brownells are made by YM and are staked

It should be noted that the Young / Les Baer NM carriers are NOT striving to be mil spec carriers which can be had for half the cost

Their NM carriers are heavier and have more surface area and tighter tolerance in the upper . It noticeably tighter in some uppers like the Larue Stealth

Their Superlight carriers are like the JP rifles Low Mass carriers for competition rifles

If you want a std carrier look elsewhere . You want a lightened carrier for competition rifle then its Youngs or JP

You just want something different then Youngs NM or JP Tactical or LMT Enhanced carrier are good choices .

I don't think I NEED any of these carriers but I don't need 90% of the gun stuff I have

Lastly I couldn't care less how a carrier is staked from the factory since I can fix that myself easily

 

[triplepete]

I think the article was just written to spark attention. I am new to the AR world and thought proper staking was one of the most important aspects of reliability. Makes me wonder though, how often do shooters encounter BCG failures? How may rounds is a typical BCG suppose last?

 

[TDC]

I think the article was just written to spark attention. I am new to the AR world and thought proper staking was one of the most important aspects of reliability. Makes me wonder though, how often do shooters encounter BCG failures? How may rounds is a typical BCG suppose last?

I've seen 3 gas key failures and all were not staked or poorly staked.

Tdc

 

[badboybeeson]

well its an idea, but people still want it staked, that's said if the right thread locker is used, it can handle heat up to 650 deg.
On one of our products we tourqe to 85lbs , thread locker that's good to 650deg and needs 450 deg heat and 195lbs-250lbs to remove it.
It ain,t ever coming off!
we do not peen or stake this product as it is a 1 thou fit.
bbb

 

[enefgee]

That's great if you're 100% sure of the torque being correct and are aware of the exact product used to lock the threads (like BBB's stuff, or YM) - but in a factory gun, like a Shrubmaster, I'm not sure of any of that, so get out the MOACKS and give 'er. IMHO.