No2 Mk4 - Bullets/Powders

[sobo4303]

This is a good one for you guys (Smellie...are you there?).

I have a brand new No2 Mk4 which has only 15 rounds put through it. Those rounds were the Canadian Rangers ammo (Remington 180's).

I have some Hornady 150's and Sierra 174 BT's and 150 SPT's.

Here's the deal, I opening the reloading manuals (Sierra and Hornady) for the 150 grain bullets (kinda comparing to my 308 - but that's a different story) and noticed that the manuals and noticed that the sierra manual states 2,700 fps with 4064 as a max load and Win 748 is third from the top of the heap. Hornady says that 2,600 fps is max with 4064 and 748 is at the bottom of the heap.

Sierra further states that accuracy was 2,600 fps with 3031 and for hunting 4064 was the best at 44.4 gr at 2,700 fps.

Win 748 (with mag primers) and 4064 are two of my favorite powders to use. What gives here...what does one believe? Is Hornady listening to Lawyers and compensating for used surplus rifles being weaker?

Also, I have read that the Mk4 No2's were designed to shoot a spitzer 174 gr bullet - flat base and pointed. I have also read that the BT bullets do not perform well with the Enfields. Any ideas as to what load to push those babies out with? I ask because the peeps are calibrated for those bullets.

The round nose does make a difference too.

 

[Ganderite]

If it has an excellent barrel, try the Sierra 174 Matchking. Also try the 180 flat based spitzer and the 180 round nose. The latter works well in pooched barrels

My best 303s shoot best with the 174 MatchKings.

 

[Cdn303]

Yes, if the barrel is still in good shape it might handle the BT really nicely. The best thing to do is to make up a bunch of loads and try them; using a different combination of everything that you have.

 

[buffdog]

This is why you should always consult at least three loading Manuals when starting to work up loads.

What you have not taken into account is that these Manuals were compiled by two different companies, using two different firearms or pressure barrels. Therefore, the results can vary quite a bit. Also, older Manuals can be based on Lead Units of Pressure, (LUP) and newer ones tend to use Copper Units of Pressure (CUP) for their testing. Barrel wear, length, inside bore diameter, rifle versus pressure barrel, and other factors come into play when these loads are tested. Different lots of powder, different SHAPES on the bullets, different makes or lots of primers, seating depth and other things all combine to make two DIFFERENT results for the same calibre.

Your sights are calibrated for the Mark VII Ball ammunition. Even if you use the same weight bullet, there is a good chance that it might not hit at the sight setting at various ranges due to the bullet itself being different in shape. People seem to complain that their rifle sights are off and the rifle is shooting way high for example, but they are shooting at 100 yards when the rifle is zeroed at the factory for 300 yards on a Lee Enfield.

What you have to do is pick a load using a suitable powder and bullet combination, and start 10 percent low from the top load then work upwards a half grain at a time keeping a look out for pressure signs, assuming your rifle is in good condition. If you see pressure signs, then you STOP right there and then. Just because someone can get a few more grains in THEIR rifle safely without having pressure signs does not mean that you can with your rifle.

As far as two or three companies getting different results with different powders, it is quite common, but it is because this is THEIR results in THEIR rifles using THEIR components. You could have two rifles made the same day, one after the other, and they may shoot similarily, or, they may have two widely different results.

I have an old Manual that gives some very, very low velocities for their loads for the 6.5x55 Mauser cartridge. Then, by reading what the test rifle was, you find out they used a Model 94 Carbine (about 18 inch barrel) instead of a Model 96 Rifle (29 inch Barrel) or a Model 38 Short Rifle (24 inch Barrel.) Or even a 30 inch pressure barrel. Obviously results will be a lot different with any of these.
.

 

[fernleaf]

I have also read that the BT bullets do not perform well with the Enfields.

It is well known (at least around my part of the world) that two groove No.4 barrels can be a bit picky as to whether or not they shoot well when using boat tailed bullets.

Many years ago I went through boxes of Sierra 174grn MKs, and cans of all different types of powder and trays of primers trying to get the Sierra bullets shoot in my Longbranch No.4 - I was determined to make these bullets work for me.

In the end I gave up and got down on all the CAC 1959 MK7 Ball I could find and stuck with that - none of my different handloads came to close to its performance.

However, also in my experience five groove barrels LOVE the Sierra MKs....

 

[sobo4303]

My rifle was an originally wrapped '54 FAZ. Of course I unwrapped, cleaned and shot a few factory rounds. I intended on starting low and working up...just didn't want to waste too much time on useless recipes and then got to wondering why the major differences in the manuals. Both are 2010 editions.

I was going to start out with the 174 MK's and then try the 150 spt's for accuracy. I'm thinking these bullets would make excellent hunting rounds...maybe even a quick varmint round or two.

This past weekend, my prized varmint rifle slipped off the front of my bumper and the scope got knocked out of it's sight in point. Would never have happened to a my Enfield. Lost a coyote at 150 yards because of that little mishap. That's why so interested in bullets now

 

[enefgee]

Flat based bullets shoot better in barrels that have fired cordite loads. Your barrel hasn't had the pleasure (or erosion that results) of shooting cordite (that stuff burns very hot). Give about 39 grains of 4064 a try preferably in a Privi case (PPU headstamp) under a 174 SMK. There's room there to adjust up and down for the personality of your rifle. The Privi ball equivalent is also more than decently accurate, and is a great way to get the best brass available anywhere. Oh yes, and skip 100 yds for a while, real men shoot 200+ (LOL)

 

[sobo4303]

Flat based bullets shoot better in barrels that have fired cordite loads. Your barrel hasn't had the pleasure (or erosion that results) of shooting cordite (that stuff burns very hot). Give about 39 grains of 4064 a try preferably in a Privi case (PPU headstamp) under a 174 SMK. There's room there to adjust up and down for the personality of your rifle. The Privi ball equivalent is also more than decently accurate, and is a great way to get the best brass available anywhere. Oh yes, and skip 100 yds for a while, real men shoot 200+ (LOL)

Now that's great advice...thanks. Anybody use any ball powders? I have had great luck with my 223 and 308 using 748 recipes.

And ya...100 to sight the rounds in....300 yard gongs for target practice afterwards.

Cheers!

 

[purple]

I have found that the .303 generally responds best to extruded propellants incl RE15, Varget, IMR4064, IMR4895, and IMR4350. I have also had excellent results with 174/180gr bullets using W760 and H414 ball powders which are slower burning than W748.

Winchester-Western loaded gazzilions of .303 rounds for the Brits in WW2 using a ball powder which BLC2 was derived from, so there is potential for both W748 and BLC2.

 

[dirtytwo]

For what it's worth, I tied for 1st at one of last year's EOHC Milsurp matches using a Faz No.4 Mk 1/2 filled with Prvi brass, Win primers, 39.0gr of IMR 4064 and Hornady 174gr HPBTs for an average MV of 2250fps. My bbl/rifling condition is excellent, so maybe that had a lot to do with it, but I'll be damned if I change the recipe!