No4Mk1T accuracy (range session) pic

Riflechair

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June 28th 2010

Some of you already know that I aquired an all matching and minty 1944 M47C No4Mk1T sniper with transit case and No32Mk3 telescope last winter. It was one of those rare opportunities to make good on a boyhood dream to own one of these rifles.

Well, I took the old girl out to the range today and got her zeroed at 200 metres using 20 rounds of 92 IVI Ball which I happily discovered collecting dust in my ammo locker. I like suprises!
Truthfully though I never particularly liked the 92 ammo lot. I recall some real inconsistency issues - but moving right along its good enough for some short range trials.

I found the No32Mk3 scope to be very easy to zero. It took two-rounds at 25m to get aligned and another 4-rounds at 200m to get in V-Bull territory.
As you can see from the target below I have one more click left to be dead bang on.

Drum appears to be calibrated in 1/2 minute clicks. There is a sliding dial which has a divit that fits the nose of a 175gr FMJBT perfectly (the turret grease is still plyable). Simply hold the turret in place with your fingers and turn the dial until the '0' arrives at the ^ Indexing Mark. Bang, there you go, you're zeroed. The cams in the turret are calibrated to compensate for 174gr Mk7 (not Mk8 175gr) ammunition bullet drop which makes "Getting on Paper" out to 1000 yards a piece of cake. I have some old Mk7 ammo from 1948 and a few rounds left of the 92 Mk8Z FMJBT. I'm going to chrono both marks of ammo and evaluate what the performance variation, mean and standard deviations are.

Anyhow, I decided to see what kind of grouping I could get with this ammo at 200 metres.
Position: Prone Supported (sandbag to support the left forearm)

I worked very hard for each round. Had to take several rests in between shots.
The optics are not crystal clear and actually strain the eyes a little but this is still a dramatic improvement over open sites.
You can just make out the 2" black squares I drew on the paper with a permanent marker.
The vertical post makes defining the target point of aim much easier to quantify than conventional cross-hairs. I'll consider moving to a German No.2 post reticle on all of my hunting scopes.

Anyhow the results are below for your consideration. (Thank you cell phone camera)
I'm thinking perhaps some tailor made handloads might be an interesting examination of what this rifle is really capable of.

sniper1.jpg
 
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I think two rounds went through the same hole. It was the top hole if I recall.

Anyway, yes the tape is covering one of the holes shot when I was zeroing the No32Mk3 scope. Great system the Brits designed, really easy to zero. I obviously need to move things over by two clicks.
 
... I have some old Mk7 ammo from 1948 ...

If that's a current picture of you in your avatar you have certainly aged well. :nest:


Good post. It's nice to see a historic old gun in the right hands, i.e. actually being taken out to the range sometimes.

I very much agree about the post-and-cross hair reticle for hunting.
 
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Riflechair;4581748snip...[FONT=Arial said:
I'm thinking perhaps some tailor made handloads might be an interesting examination of what this rifle is really capable of.[/FONT]

Try the Sierra 180g matchking, it seems to be the closest available commercial bullet.

I badgered Chinchaga bullets to build a flatbase 174g spitzer a few years ago, the last few times I've seen him, he told me of his surprise at the interest and that he was in the process of building one...:D
 
Isn't it a drag that nobody makes flat/open base fmj bullets? Whats up with that? You would figure its one of the cheapest designs to make. BTW Riflechair I am jealous as all get out.
 
Thanks desporterizer.
I prefer flat base bullets for hunting purposes. I could be wrong but I believe they hold together a bit better - terminal ballistics.

But when it comes to external ballistics studies have shown though that BT bullets do fly much better for long range purposes. The bullet maintains supersonic velocity for much further and there is less cavitation.
 
Quite true, but rifles with generous groove diameters tend to do better with a open flat base. Somebody posted some army literature which stated better accuracy out of issue mk7 as opposed to the mk8. How much of a difference it makes I can't say but mk7 shot way better out of my No5 than mk8.
 
There was a Nosler Match bullet which had a modified boattail with some kind of a "step" at the beginning of the boattail. They made use of a "J" jacket or something. First jacket lots came from Berger until Nosler made their own.
The jackets were quite soft and I think they upset just a bit on firing which helped a lot in obturation and accuracy.
I don't know if they are still in Nosler's lists.
PP.
 
Thanks desporterizer.
I prefer flat base bullets for hunting purposes. I could be wrong but I believe they hold together a bit better - terminal ballistics.

But when it comes to external ballistics studies have shown though that BT bullets do fly much better for long range purposes. The bullet maintains supersonic velocity for much further and there is less cavitation.
sorry I think that you missed the point. Your scope is cammed to 1000 yards for MkVII ball, not Mk8. Any boat-tail would modify your trajectory too much. The perfect solution would be a flatbase spitzer of 174grains.
 
sorry I think that you missed the point. Your scope is cammed to 1000 yards for MkVII ball, not Mk8. Any boat-tail would modify your trajectory too much. The perfect solution would be a flatbase spitzer of 174grains.

I know Privi makes 174gr. bullets. I believe they are flatbase design. Worth looking into. C1A1
 
sorry I think that you missed the point. Your scope is cammed to 1000 yards for MkVII ball, not Mk8. Any boat-tail would modify your trajectory too much. The perfect solution would be a flatbase spitzer of 174grains.

Yes I did miss that. Thanks for clarifying :)
 
That is an ultra cool rifle you have there!!!! I'm sure you experts out there could give me quite the education on 303 issue ammo, but was there ever a "sniper"/match type ammo issued for the 303 like there was for the K98?

With hand loads, I have no doubt it could be a real shooter. As an F-Classer, I have to appreciate that your firing position probably contributed to group size and that a more supported position/set-up would yield tighter results, but then that was never how those beautiful rifles were likely meant to be shot anyway.

Thanks for sharing - made my day!
 
That is an ultra cool rifle you have there!!!! I'm sure you experts out there could give me quite the education on 303 issue ammo, but was there ever a "sniper"/match type ammo issued for the 303 like there was for the K98?

With hand loads, I have no doubt it could be a real shooter. As an F-Classer, I have to appreciate that your firing position probably contributed to group size and that a more supported position/set-up would yield tighter results, but then that was never how those beautiful rifles were likely meant to be shot anyway.

Thanks for sharing - made my day!

Technically the answer is no. However I have been given to understand that snipers were prone to snapping up MkVII ball rated for syncronized aircraft guns.
 
Lose the IVI ammo and find some DA made ammo. IVI's QC for .303 ball was low. The best .303 I've ever shot was 1944 vintage DA out my Cadet Corps' rifles. Made the 80's vintage IVI we got later look like total crap.
Or reload with match grade bullets. High end rifles need good ammo. Slug the bore first anyway.
 
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