Non-refurbished SKS observations

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I was lucky enough today to be able to go through some crates of non-refurbished SKS rifles as they came from the Ukraine. I was also lucky enough to speak to a man who has processed and categorized roughly 3,000 SKS rifles.

Of the 3,000, speaking about the non-refurbished only:

-1 was a 1953 Izhevsk (There is more than 1 in Canada though for sure)
-There were at least a dozen 1954 Izhevsk, maybe more we didn't get into details (I did get a particularly nice one though)
-0 had a 90* gas block
-0 made in 1949
-0 with a spike bayonet

I also had a chance to look at 5 non-refurbished rifles made in the first half of 1950 and a couple made in the middle and last part of 1950 and was able to make some observations.

The rear sight leaf was not electro penciled with the serial number until at least the middle of 1950, or it was very inconsistent at least. When they dropped the spring loaded firing pin is about the time they started to mark it. One of the later 1950 I observed which was serial number "KB3370" had accidentally been marked "KB3870" under the rear sight leaf. The tech had noticed and had scratched out the mistake and then corrected it on the other side, kinda cool.

In 1950 the markings on the left crossbolt are inconsistent. Sometimes there are 3 cartouches, other times only 2. They seem to be much more lightly stamped than the later rifles. There were a few with deep stamps however which leads me to believe many of stocks were refinished at some point even though they are originally matching to the rifle. You can't really categorize them as non-refurbished at that point but some collectors might not care about a matching stock being refinished by the Russians themselves.

I was also able to make some general observations such as the golden bayonet being very common. Finally, the final inspection cartouche on the right hand side varies greatly on every rifle. Sometimes it was a nice clean strike and other times it was at an extreme angle. A partial final inspection cartouche does not necessarily indicate sanding.

Thanks Wilson!

Opinions? Any more information or observations?
 
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And from Ukraine? They must be hoarded and stockpiled, since nothing has come out of Ukraine since the fighting started. The mine their small arms were stored in is in donetsk, pretty much ground zero for the conflict.
 
And from Ukraine? They must be hoarded and stockpiled, since nothing has come out of Ukraine since the fighting started. The mine their small arms were stored in is in donetsk, pretty much ground zero for the conflict.

Lots of stuff was on route to Canada before the conflict started, was held in processing, etc.

A retailer selling mass unrefurbished sks? Pretty rare these days!
You sure theyre not refurbed?

Looks like 1 in 8 were refurbished, the rest were not. I have read all the SKS literature and message boards so I know even the smallest, minor details to look for. The overwhelming majority of their SKS are just refurbished I just happened to be looking at the non-refurbished.

Some of them were in their original stock but the original stock may have been refinished by the Russians themselves as there seemed to be shellac in the cartouches and some of the cartouches were very, very light. This was most common on the earlier rifles.
 
They are out there - most from my experience were 1954 to Letter series rifles.

However, I found at least one example un-refrub'd for each year of production and maker with the only exception being 1949.

They were more common but can still be found. Even Molot ugly rifles sometimes have a non-refurb'd rifle mixed it - however they do have a molot laser etching and the magazine has been swapped out when they internally pinned them - so are these still non-refurb'd rifles? Good question - these rifles with original finish/etc. are the exception and not the norm.

Regards
 
I wouldn't care (too much) about laser etching but swapped magazine is a deal breaker; in addition, all molot rifles I've seen had a bit darker shellac overcoat that looks like recent addition.



They are out there - most from my experience were 1954 to Letter series rifles.

However, I found at least one example un-refrub'd for each year of production and maker with the only exception being 1949.

They were more common but can still be found. Even Molot ugly rifles sometimes have a non-refurb'd rifle mixed it - however they do have a molot laser etching and the magazine has been swapped out when they internally pinned them - so are these still non-refurb'd rifles? Good question - these rifles with original finish/etc. are the exception and not the norm.

Regards
 
I don't believe for a minute that more than a few percent of them are non-refurbished. Many "looks to be non-refurbished" specimens out there are sitting in replacement stocks with newly added cartouches cleverly made to look old and dirty. Buyer beware if you're looking for collectible specimens. Personally, I would take an original Ukrainian refurb over a dicked-up Molot rifle. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but I've handled many hundreds of SKS's and I know what is out there.
 
I don't believe for a minute that more than a few percent of them are non-refurbished. Many "looks to be non-refurbished" specimens out there are sitting in replacement stocks with newly added cartouches cleverly made to look old and dirty. Buyer beware if you're looking for collectible specimens. Personally, I would take an original Ukrainian refurb over a dicked-up Molot rifle. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but I've handled many hundreds of SKS's and I know what is out there.

I have five non-refurbished SKS rifles and have handled dozens and have never seen fake cartouches. I have talked to two importers of the SKS and they both said it cost more for them to have the magazine pinned than the cost of the rifle. That would mean that adding "fake cartouches cleverly made to look old and dirty" would cost more than the rifle. Would that be worth it for a $75 markup? I don't think so. Also keep in mind the SKS was replaced for front line service by 1951, it makes sense that there are so many non-refurbished examples.

Molot is just a company out of Russia that exported the SKS as a hunting rifle. They are original SKS rifles, from Russia which have not been "dicked-up" or anything like that. Sometimes they went through a different refurbishment process but that's it.
 
With Ukrainian import non-refurbed SKSs with all matching parts Molot rifles could hardly be considered as collectible. I have seen some true non-refurbished examples among Molot, but they all have mismatched mags (plus ugly laser etching). I don't think there are fake stock cartouches out there, we are talking about rifles with retails price of $199.
 
One is real, one is not:


Another one from the same dealer. Russian 49 with Chinese painted spike




Had another one but never took pictures of it.
Fake are out there but if those rifles are sold by "reputable" dealer and majority of people can't tell the difference, well...
 
Another one from the same dealer. Russian 49 with Chinese painted spike

I remember reading that westrifle sold someone a 1949 with a Chinese spike. I didn't read anymore than that concise blurb though.

Wow, the fake on the bottom is really poorly done. You can even tell it was heavily sanded lol.. who did that?

All you need is a mechanical pencil, shellac and patience to bring back sanded cartouches... Not sure why it would be expensive?

It's not expensive to do. It just only raises the price of a rifle by $75. It's just not worth it.
 
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One is real, one is not:
What exactly you don't like with the bottom stock? The fact it was sanded does not worry me, I saw even more crude sanding on refurbs. The fact that the year is 1945 is also not suspicions, i saw enough examples of mixed digits in the year or serial stamping, made both during original production or refurb. From the picture the font looks fine to me. So why do you think it's fake?

Another one from the same dealer. Russian 49 with Chinese painted spike



Had another one but never took pictures of it.
Fake are out there but if those rifles are sold by "reputable" dealer and majority of people can't tell the difference, well...
Are we talking about more than 1 chinese bayo on soviet SKS? I had been watching the development of that story. I'm not quite sure how that dealer could have benefited from the one fake rifle. No doubt chinese bayo does not belong originally to soviet SKS, but was it put there to fake 1949 appearance? Maybe, maybe not.
 
That's just my observations...
Beside the fact that 1949 had different shaped stock (to accommodate spike) if you look closer at the numbers (especially 1949 date) it's different "font" and "size" about 20 to 30% larger. And there is that as well:

What exactly you don't like with the bottom stock? The fact it was sanded does not worry me, I saw even more crude sanding on refurbs. The fact that the year is 1945 is also not suspicions, i saw enough examples of mixed digits in the year or serial stamping, made both during original production or refurb. From the picture the font looks fine to me. So why do you think it's fake?




Are we talking about more than 1 chinese bayo on soviet SKS? I had been watching the development of that story. I'm not quite sure how that dealer could have benefited from the one fake rifle. No doubt chinese bayo does not belong originally to soviet SKS, but was it put there to fake 1949 appearance? Maybe, maybe not.

I know of three such examples.
 
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