Non restricted black rifles

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Kelly I own a ton of bolt action hunting rifles. Some in particular like my sako Bavarian and tikka t3 are so incredibly accurate that a "tactical" version wouldn't really make any difference to me. My rifles are sub moa out of the box and realistically no human is good enough to know the difference between one that's "better" even computers can hardly tell the difference. So I'm looking for honestly a potatoe popper at the farm. Have some fun shooting a quick shooting cool looking low recoil rifle. It's honestly a toy I'm looking for and not a hunting rifle. When people say accuracy is poor, how poor are we talking? Bullets spraying everywhere? Realistically with iron sights 100 yards is hell of a distance. They must be pretty good within 100 no? I like to set up potatoes on a fence rail. What model from sks?
 
Chago said:
I don't get it? Why is everyone so wowed? Is sporting rifle a better word? Whatever you call it I like the military look. Sorry for the choice of words.
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There is no such thing as a civilian legal assault rifle in Canada. You, I, nor any other citizen of this country can own an "assault rifle". They are banned and prohibited. There is a select group of grandfathered individuals who can own full auto, but, they are long in the tooth and dwindling in number. When the last of them departs this world, part of the Liberal wet dream of elimination of Canadian firearms ownership will be realized.
 
Ok let's be real here. Your analogy is not at all the same. What would any o these "black rifles" be called in military? There not sniper rifles, there not light machine guns, I'm pretty sure they actually are considered as a assault rifle. They are designed for military and police to kill people. No matter how you want to look at it. They are not designed in a 223 caliber to kill moose so lets face that fact. Now I understand your point of view as ignorant idiots take someone who wants to own one for personal enjoyment shooting paper as a psycho who will kill everyone. So for the non gun nut you like to use the word black rifle. So I apologize again for using assault I can appreciate the concern of everyone. But that doesn't deserve the reception I got. It only wouldve taken one person to educate me.

I'm a regular on hunting sites. And yes we too have the ignorant anti hunters. So we like to say harvest a animal and not kill. Cause for whatever reason anti prefer of we harvested and not killed animals. So if so done posts a pic says look at this 12 point buck I killed. I'm not gonna #### on the guy for two days. Someone can easily explain to him the I
Importance of using harvest. Your analogy is way off for me to mix up assault when these weapons outside the hobby are infact called that. As compared to a condom being a rape safe kit.

And if you don't like re answering a question why are you here? What's the forum for then? We're you expecting to log on and there be this brand new information that is revolutionizing guns that you never knew about? It's a question and answer forum. Me newby ask the se question 300 times and you experts answer them. If we don't do that them there would be no discussion and the site would be closed down.
 
Come on guys don't chase him away he just wants the joys of owning a really cool rifle. Your budget makes all the difference in what I would recommend.
 
Not sure about your thoughts on 17HMR , but they will explode potatoes at the distances you mention.

Alexander Arms has a 17HMR that could be close to what you want, not 100% sure of the details on it but it does have the ergonomics you desire.

Chago said:
There edited title.

Kelly I own a ton of bolt action hunting rifles. Some in particular like my sako Bavarian and tikka t3 are so incredibly accurate that a "tactical" version wouldn't really make any difference to me. My rifles are sub moa out of the box and realistically no human is good enough to know the difference between one that's "better" even computers can hardly tell the difference. So I'm looking for honestly a potatoe popper at the farm. Have some fun shooting a quick shooting cool looking low recoil rifle. It's honestly a toy I'm looking for and not a hunting rifle. When people say accuracy is poor, how poor are we talking? Bullets spraying everywhere? Realistically with iron sights 100 yards is hell of a distance. They must be pretty good within 100 no? I like to set up potatoes on a fence rail. What model from sks?
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$1500 is where i would like to be. Although if your telling me a rifle a little more is light years passed something less I'm all ears.
 
Hi Chago,

Lots of girls on here get their panties in a knot. Some how they think we'd be giving away all the black rifles secrets if we made a list for new enthusiasts to review.

I'd suggest saving up for a while and doubling your budget, to get the good stuff:

- SL8
- XCR
- Swiss Arms
- RFB
- Tavor
- M1A

The T97NSR should be available sooner or later for $1000 (223), this might be to your liking.
 
I love my CZ858, light and fun to shoot, lots of after market options, 7.62x39 great inexpensive calibre.
SKS are another good inexpensive 7.62x39 alternative but I much prefer the CZ858
CSA has some decent options the the VZ58
I have owned a mini-14 and they are great fun and can be dressed up nicely
Another decent option is the mini-30, this is in 7.62x39 as well so inexpensive to Shoot and dresses up well too.
The list goes on.....
Good luck with it and have fun
 
Chago said:
I'm pretty sure they actually are considered as a assault rifle. They are designed for military and police to kill people
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The only people that might consider a semi auto centerfire rifle an assault rifle are the uninformed. I know of no military that uses AR15s or Mini 14s or SU 16s or AR180Bs or the like as an assault weapon. Except for maybe Bermuda and they have a Mini 14 variant, the SR 556, that is used for drill and ceremonial purpose.

Just because a rifle has an adjustable butt stock, a pistol grip and a detachable magazine doesn't make it an assault rifle. As an example what would you call this:





It has every feature that some consider makes it an assault rifle but it is not. It is a hunting rifle incorporating modular concepts found on AR15 type rifles.
 
Chago, you're wrong on so many levels.

You want to be educated? Here it goes.

Chago said:
Ok let's be real here. Your analogy is not at all the same. What would any o these "black rifles" be called in military? There not sniper rifles, there not light machine guns, I'm pretty sure they actually are considered as a assault rifle. They are designed for military and police to kill people. No matter how you want to look at it.
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An assault rifle is not defined by the way it looks. It is defined by the way it FUNCTIONS. all the "black rifles" that can be owned by civilians in Canada would NOT be called assault weapons in the military, simply because they don't function the way an assault weapon does. So the fact that an AR15 looks like an M4 does not make it fall under the same category.

So when you say :

Your analogy is way off for me to mix up assault when these weapons outside the hobby are infact called that.
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You are mistaken in your very understanding of how these guns are defined. The analogy is right. Whats wrong is the very basis of your perception. You, like all ignorant anti gun folks, categorize a gun by the way it looks instead of how it functions.

So when you say you want to be educated....people here have tried to educate you for a couple pages now, and you still seem stuck on your flawed understanding of the term. If you really wanted to remedy your ignorance, you'd actually listen to what people are saying.
 
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If you liked your buddy's CZ 858, but dislike the fugly plywood furniture then have a look at the CSA VZ58. Comes in .223, 7.62x39, and possibly 7.62x51 in the future. It has decent polymer furniture and a nice black finish instead of the high gloss finish your friends rifle had. The receiver is also pre tapped for a scope rail. Some come with a adjustable M4 style adjustable stock.

As others have said, you are fairly limited by $1500 for a non restricted black rifle. Honestly, once you get the bug your going to want another. And another. And another. And so on.

Under $1500 in order of what I would spend my money on 1st to last.
1. VZ58 approx. $890
2. T97NSR approx. $850-1000
3.AR 180-B approx. $1500-2000
4. Keltec Su-16 approx. (I dont know.)

Above $1500
1. IWI Tavor Tar-21 approx. $2600-2800
2. Valmet (M78?) approx. (Seen some at calgary gun show for $5000.)
3. Rebarreled Bushmaster ACR approx. $3000-3500
4. Robinson Arms XCR-L approx. $2500
5. HK SL8 approx. (Unknown $)
6. Keltec RFB .308 approx. $2500

There is many more, but this is how I would do it. Have a look at the Tavor if the budget will allow you to, also the T97NSR. Both are bullpups meaning the over all length is shortened by the fact that the action is placed in the but stock rather then ahead of the pistol grip. It remains non restricted by maintaining the minimum overall minimum length and minimum barrel length. Look at Tar21.com.
 
once again I am saddened to see the group of numbnutz pouncing on the poor new guy for asking a question. Thanks to the few of you that gave this fellow some actual advice. (The list in the post right above this one is perfect.)

Another alternative I may suggest would be the the "Sparta" stock for the Mini-14 (made by Archangel and sold by hical.ca on here.) Take a look, it might be what you are after?
 
as for the assault rifle thing... yeah he worded it a bit wrong, but you know exactly what he meant.

try to be nice, we were all noobs once.
 
Travis Bickle said:
A man comes looking for guidance, information and education and finds nothing but arrogance and attitude and haisplitting from most.

Great job representing your community folks.
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Amen to that Travis.
Thanks for being the voice of reason,taking the high road and the time to actually answer the question.
Out of your suggested price range Chago but take a good hard look at the Swiss Arms. Look for a good used one, they can be found for a reasonable price. I love mine.
 
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One of the most useful posts on this thread, thanks Trig. I would only add that the search function defaults to two weeks so be sure to increase that # for better results. Greentips would do everyone a favour if this type of "welcome" were mandatory reading before any posting by new members. Kudos to the other members who took the high road :cheers:

You can always tell those who haven't read through the thread because they bring up the same issue over and over again. The OP must have apologized and modified his question half a dozen times and he's still being criticized :rolleyes:


Trigger_The_Rookie said:
Hey Chago:

I've been slacking lately with spamming the new member threads. Here's what you would got and helped avoid this matter:
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Welcome to CGN, a great place to come for firearm technical info, legal info, and current events.

If you have a question that just can't wait for an answer, be sure to try the search function.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...?search_type=1

If you have any questions about the legal aspects of owning and using firearms, you'll find a good resource in the 'stickies' at the top of the list here:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...hp?90-Legalese

As a new member, please do your best to represent the firearms community well. Here are a few things that often get a new guy into trouble: Not keeping the language clean, discussing illegal activities, and writing things which could reflect poorly on the community at large. Don't be offended if people are suspicious of you if you ask strange questions. It is not uncommon for antis (aka gun grabbers, aka the civil disarmament crowd) to cause trouble and stir up controversy on the forum. Sometimes the people here might confuse you for one of those people. Try to be forgiving of that because CGN has a lot to offer, whether you are a new shooter, or a veteran lead-slinger.

If you have a genuine interest in the rights of Canadian firearm owners, I'd encourage you to look into joining one or more of our national orgs. The two most popular are:
CSSA & NFA

With a little bit of research you will see just how much these orgs do to protect our rights. Not only that, but each offers insurance for legal firearm activities. Your money goes a long way to help the cause, but you would not believe how far having your name on the list goes in strengthening our position.

I'd also like to add this: The plight of the Canadian firearm community has been largely ignored by the Canadian media. About two years ago a new news network called http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca busted onto the scene.
The Sun News Network is a vocal advocate for our gun rights, so I urge you to do what you can to support them.
Sun supports us, so please show them some love.

Once again, welcome. Shoot safe and have fun!

Trig
 
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