Non toxic turkey loads

[canvasback]

I don't look at hunting seasons as one species, hunting is hunting all species all seasons. It's called big picture. Sure one species, turkey is a drop in the bucket, but collectively it adds up. Maybe you have disposable income (even though you said you don't use it?) To shoot said shells, that's fine and dandy. Too me, lead works why change it? At up to 6x the cost these don't deliver 6x the performance. If you don't see that, than what I have to say has little impact...

North

I hunt turkey, I hunt waterfowl, I hunt prairie upland like pheasant, sharptail, huns and quail, I hunt woodcock and ruffed grouse. I hunt in Ontario, Manitoba, the Dakotas, Nebraska etc. To do all that I use lots of different loads. I use lead where I can, no tox when I can't. I never use steel. While I too look at the "big picture" of my hunting, the cost of ammo for turkey hunting, typically a rather specialized item, is insignificant to my overall expenditures on ammo, never mind all the ancillary costs for all my hunting. In a thread discussing non tox turkey loads I fail to see how my personal use of lead negates my comments about the use of TSS. I also fail to see how referencing shooting a lot of waterfowl contributes.

Oh, and no tox wasn't pushed on us for waterfowl because it was advanced tech and better killing power, it was pushed on us for BS reasons regarding the toxicity of lead. One more way for anti gun/anti hunting advocates to make our interests more costly and less likely to continue.

 

[North of 7]

Disregard.

 

[North of 7]

I hunt turkey, I hunt waterfowl, I hunt prairie upland like pheasant, sharptail, huns and quail, I hunt woodcock and ruffed grouse. I hunt in Ontario, Manitoba, the Dakotas, Nebraska etc. To do all that I use lots of different loads. I use lead where I can, no tox when I can't. I never use steel. While I too look at the "big picture" of my hunting, the cost of ammo for turkey hunting, typically a rather specialized item, is insignificant to my overall expenditures on ammo, never mind all the ancillary costs for all my hunting. In a thread discussing non tox turkey loads I fail to see how my personal use of lead negates my comments about the use of TSS. I also fail to see how referencing shooting a lot of waterfowl contributes.

Oh, and no tox wasn't pushed on us for waterfowl because it was advanced tech and better killing power, it was pushed on us for BS reasons regarding the toxicity of lead. One more way for anti gun/anti hunting advocates to make our interests more costly and less likely to continue.

I know. I was there. I meant why switch to non toxic if we have a choice? Because we didn't before. Sorry for the confusion.

North

 

[canvasback]

Because you are knocking people for not spending the money on the shells suggesting that people shouldn't hunt if they can't afford it. You also said we haven't thought it through. Does paying upwards of 6x the cost for essentially the same thing make sense to you? If so you have more money than brains! So we are clear, I don't know you, you don't know me. So you wouldn't know my 6 figure salary... you know the saying about a fool and their money?

Lead works. You use what works for you. My turkeys don't fuss over lead. Enjoy the sport and food.

North

That people shouldn't hunt if they can't afford it???? I suggested no such thing. Although it's probably good advice.

What I did say, or suggest, is getting bent out of shape about the cost of TSS for the very few loads fired each year, when put against the overall cost of turkey hunting, is silly.......assuming the cost of TSS is the thing holding you back. It's a negligible cost when turkey hunting. Very different if waterfowling. And I was directing the comment to people who WANT to use it but aren't because of the cost. People are penny wise and pound foolish about all sorts of things. Why should hunting be any different.

I don't. I'm happy with lead. See no reason to change.

But now that I know you make a 6 figure income, I take everything back. Clearly you're right.

 

[North of 7]

That people shouldn't hunt if they can't afford it???? I suggested no such thing. Although it's probably good advice.

What I did say, or suggest, is getting bent out of shape about the cost of TSS for the very few loads fired each year, when put against the overall cost of turkey hunting, is silly.......assuming the cost of TSS is the thing holding you back. It's a negligible cost when turkey hunting. Very different if waterfowling. And I was directing the comment to people who WANT to use it but aren't because of the cost. People are penny wise and pound foolish about all sorts of things. Why should hunting be any different.

I don't. I'm happy with lead. See no reason to change.

But now that I know you make a 6 figure income, I take everything back. Clearly you're right.

My apologies, I misinterpreted your original post. Just came from the eye doctor, they put these weird drops in that screwed my eyes, back on track.
Yes I do look at the big picture when it comes to hunting. Costs are considered. You must do the same. Sure a few rounds doesn't mean much, I see your point. That being said, the cost and performance of non toxic does not Trump or outperform lead on turkey. If it was that much better I'd use it as would most turkey hunters.
Sure some people will buy it and want to use it. But that's their choice.


It came across as you were originally a strong advocate for it until other members spoke up and said lead works just fine. I see your point. But when you have different cost tiers of products, you expect the top to deliver performance that is on par with cost. In this case, the performance versus cost factor is astronomical.

North

 

[3macs1]

That people shouldn't hunt if they can't afford it???? I suggested no such thing. Although it's probably good advice.

What I did say, or suggest, is getting bent out of shape about the cost of TSS for the very few loads fired each year, when put against the overall cost of turkey hunting, is silly.......assuming the cost of TSS is the thing holding you back. It's a negligible cost when turkey hunting. Very different if waterfowling. And I was directing the comment to people who WANT to use it but aren't because of the cost. People are penny wise and pound foolish about all sorts of things. Why should hunting be any different.

I don't. I'm happy with lead. See no reason to change.

But now that I know you make a 6 figure income, I take everything back. Clearly you're right.

Most of my family in western canada would not eat meat if they didnot hunt
Cheers

 

[canvasback]

My apologies, I misinterpreted your original post. Just came from the eye doctor, they put these weird drops in that screwed my eyes, back on track.
Yes I do look at the big picture when it comes to hunting. Costs are considered. You must do the same. Sure a few rounds doesn't mean much, I see your point. That being said, the cost and performance of non toxic does not Trump or outperform lead on turkey. If it was that much better I'd use it as would most turkey hunters.
Sure some people will buy it and want to use it. But that's their choice.


It came across as you were originally a strong advocate for it until other members spoke up and said lead works just fine. I see your point. But when you have different cost tiers of products, you expect the top to deliver performance that is on par with cost. In this case, the performance versus cost factor is astronomical.

North

Apology accepted and if I was originally unclear or confusing as to my post's meaning, I too apologize.

 

[hgeo33]

Ozzi

Looks like as usual on CGN you stirred up crazy controversy from all angles.

Let me summarize for you.

For Turkey you pretty much have two options Lead or Tungsten (non toxic)

Both Pattern Well
Both can be used with Tight Chokes (make sure that you choke tube is rated for tungsten if using that)
With Tungsten you can use smaller shot that kills and has the range the same as much larger lead shot with a denser pattern

Lead will do the job no problem but tungsten is significantly better
Tungsten rounds are typically at least double the price of premium lead turkey ammo

Your decision as to if you want to spend the money on tungsten or stick with lead.

 

[3macs1]

Ozzi

Looks like as usual on CGN you stirred up crazy controversy from all angles.

Let me summarize for you.

For Turkey you pretty much have two options Lead or Tungsten (non toxic)

Both Pattern Well
Both can be used with Tight Chokes (make sure that you choke tube is rated for tungsten if using that)
With Tungsten you can use smaller shot that kills and has the range the same as much larger lead shot with a denser pattern

Lead will do the job no problem but tungsten is significantly better
Tungsten rounds are typically at least double the price of premium lead turkey ammo

Your decision as to if you want to spend the money on tungsten or stick with lead.

Didnot know there were various levels of DEAD

 

[brybenn]

8 guns x 4 ranges x 5 shots at each range =160 rds for patterning, and thats assuming one choke per gun. I must be negligent or maybe this is a bit excessive.
I started hunting turkey 3 years ago.
I have one turkey gun. It came with a choke labelled turkey. I bought 20 rounds of high velo #4 lead shot. This gun and ammo is the only thing I ever used. I used precisely 4 rounds to pattern the sights. I loctited the sights and marked the position with paint so Ill know to repattern if they move. I have killed 3 turkeys. Never took a shot a wasnt 100% confident in, and never missed a shot. Certainly saw my fair share of tailfeathers when the bird had me beat.

I have 13 rounds left. I recokon should last me 5 or 6 years. Maybe 4 if Im lucky. When its time to buy more ammo I probably wont even look at what it costs. Just find something close enough to what already works.

Some people look for performance gains whether they make significant differences or not. Same reason my truck isnt stock either. Others are content with the bare minimums and have no interest in finding something better

 

[brybenn]

Ozzi

Looks like as usual on CGN you stirred up crazy controversy from all angles.

Let me summarize for you.

For Turkey you pretty much have two options Lead or Tungsten (non toxic)

Both Pattern Well
Both can be used with Tight Chokes (make sure that you choke tube is rated for tungsten if using that)
With Tungsten you can use smaller shot that kills and has the range the same as much larger lead shot with a denser pattern

Lead will do the job no problem but tungsten is significantly better
Tungsten rounds are typically at least double the price of premium lead turkey ammo

Your decision as to if you want to spend the money on tungsten or stick with lead.

Ive tried bismuth as i use it for waterfowl and have a few cases in my supply. I found it didnt pattern anywhere near as well as lead does in tighter chokes. Old Winchester brand was absolutely horrible. The new kent bismuth patterns decent in more open chokes like mod or improved mod. Anything tighter it seems to tighten with much less degree as lead. Lead whether copper coated or not seems to react and tighter more as chokes tighten. Thats been my findings anyway. Bismuth is better than steel on waterfowl but lead wins on the turkey fields. I havent played with the tungsten stuff yet. If it was more available id try it just to see for myself but with the high cost and added cost of shipping ill stick with lead or arrows. Last year was the first year i didnt fill my tags. Only 1 tom came by and i thought it out of range for the 2.5" shell loaded with 3/4 oz #6 i had in each barrel. Flooding coyotes and a new born took its toll on my hunting. I did manage to kill 5 coyotes while out turkey hunting so it was still a good year.
I see no reason in todays market to not play with new advancements if you can afford it and justify the cost of the experience. Like bourbon. You can drink rare breed or you can drink wild turkey 81. Both are good but the rare breed is worth the extra cost

 

[3macs1]

Some people look for performance gains whether they make significant differences or not. Same reason my truck isnt stock either. Others are content with the bare minimums and have no interest in finding something better

Or some put the time and effort into developing loads for the job at hand and know exactly what their shotguns can do and many draw the line at 50 yards with Turkey regardless and both types kill just fine in that range
Others grab a box of what is reported to be the newest mouse trap on the shelf to give them what they think is the best advantage with zero time testing
But the internet says it is the bees knees
To each their own what ever works
IMO the TSS is wonderful to allow those who want to use a small gauge or for youth
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Ive tried bismuth as i use it for waterfowl and have a few cases in my supply. I found it didnt pattern anywhere near as well as lead does in tighter chokes. Old Winchester brand was absolutely horrible. The new kent bismuth patterns decent in more open chokes like mod or improved mod. Anything tighter it seems to tighten with much less degree as lead. Lead whether copper coated or not seems to react and tighter more as chokes tighten. Thats been my findings anyway. Bismuth is better than steel on waterfowl but lead wins on the turkey fields. I havent played with the tungsten stuff yet. If it was more available id try it just to see for myself but with the high cost and added cost of shipping ill stick with lead or arrows. Last year was the first year i didnt fill my tags. Only 1 tom came by and i thought it out of range for the 2.5" shell loaded with 3/4 oz #6 i had in each barrel. Flooding coyotes and a new born took its toll on my hunting. I did manage to kill 5 coyotes while out turkey hunting so it was still a good year.
I see no reason in todays market to not play with new advancements if you can afford it and justify the cost of the experience. Like bourbon. You can drink rare breed or you can drink wild turkey 81. Both are good but the rare breed is worth the extra cost

Bismuth has also had three design changes since first introduced and the first stuff was terrible. I am going back to the 90's here on reloading the first type
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Who sells TSS shotshells in canada ??

 

[brybenn]

Who sells TSS shotshells in canada ??

I havent found a canadian source thats why i havent tried it. Im not knocking any load. I load or use factory ammo that gives me the best patterns at ranges im willing to shoot at. My blackpowder 2.5" loads are a 25 yard deal with my old damascus hammer guns. Modern loads in modern guns give a very extended range

As for the winchester bismuth loads i have they are from mid 90s i believe. The kents are new production

 

[tman74]

Just use a game load. Turkey loads are not necessary.

 

[rkm456]

I patterned some Hevi-Metal Turkey last weekend. Patterns about the same as Long Beard at the ranges I'll take a shot and runs about the same price.

 

[Al Bear]

Just use a game load. Turkey loads are not necessary.

Correctimundo (That’s Latin for “right on, eh”)