Noob curiosity- Ideal black rifle?

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I'm going with the JR Carbine in 9mm to start. Black rifle, uses some AR parts and furniture, cheap to shoot, non-restricted, uses glock mags, actually can be converted to 40cal or 45acp with barrel change kit and under $1000. If I want to upgrade after a while, I will. These JR;s dont seem to stay on the used market very long. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
IMO, the only rifle worth purchasing in that price range is a VZ58, or a CZ 858 which is no longer in the new market.

If you can withstand bullpups (the are not half as bad as you think with a small amount of training) the T97 is being given some great options M14/T97.ca.

But I would suspect that by the time you had added the FTU from them, the yet to be released lower, and did a mag release upgrade, your total build would climb to probably $1600 before optics.

The black rifle game is not reasonably priced in canada unless you are fine with restricted AR15's.
 
If restricted, there are a few flavors of AR that are within that budget. A Norc CQ-A, DPMS Oracle, etc. There are some real cheap AR's from irunguns.ca, but keep in mind that they're cheap for a reason and the Norc CQ-A or Dominion Arms 556 are very robust for the dollar. They're fun, and can all be tweaked, upgraded, modded, and added onto.

On Non Restricted, very limited. VZ58, SU-16, JR Carbine, T97, or maybe a Mini-14.
 
what the folks here listed thats pretty much it now it comes down to if you want non restricted or a range toy if your going non res it takes a bit more cash to get intothe game for under a 1000 you got the su16 and t97 and then the price goes up, way up benelli mr1, rob arms xcr, bushy acr, tayvor from 1700 - over 3k and then come the optics more money more money...
 
I want to be able to take it anywhere so non-restricted is key. I want to kill coyotes so that's why I don't want to be shooting7mm+.
Regarding the Jr carbines, are they accurate and deadly out to 200yds? 300yds? My initial idea on a pistol cartridge is 100yds max. Would the 9mm make giant holes?

The reason I wanted to exclude bull pups is because I'm a noob and want to learn one subject at a time. The little bit of research I've done on bull pups seems to exclude them from being huntable for some reason. Is this wrong?

I never expected to see so many guys be so willing to help me out on this thread. The advice has been great!
 
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your correct on the jr carbine being good to about 100yrds, if your going to go that route you might as well use a .22lr. I've tried hunting with my t97 and although i haven't seen any yotes its very balanced and easy to carry in thick bush. you'll definitely want a scope or red dot on it, the irons are horrible for a ghost ring sight.
 
lowandslow said:
I want to be able to take it anywhere so non-restricted is key. I want to kill coyotes so that's why I don't want to be shooting7mm+.
Regarding the Jr carbines, are they accurate and deadly out to 200yds? 300yds? My initial idea on a pistol cartridge is 100yds max. Would the 9mm make giant holes?

The reason I wanted to exclude bull pups is because I'm a noob and want to learn one subject at a time. The little bit of research I've done on bull pups seems to exclude them from being huntable for some reason. Is this wrong?

I never expected to see so many guys be so willing to help me out on this thread. The advice has been great!
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I've owned a 9mm JR Carbine and while reliable and fun to shoot it really doesn't seem to fit what you're after when factoring hunting and especially shots beyond 100metres (I wouldn't hunt with a pistol caliber under a large magnum, not even the .40 or .45 calibers available from JR) and I definitely wouldn't hunt with the 9mm.
If killing coyotes is what you're after .223 and 7.62x39 are two popular and affordable to shoot calibers that would be capable out to 300metres.

Ruger Mini-14 (.223) and Mini-30 (7.62x39) are both around your original $800 price point and while neither are very 'Black Rifle lookin' or super accurate they both can be tacticooled up quite a bit and accurized as well.
The Czech 858 & VZ58 can both be found in NR form with the hard hitting 7.62x39 (as compared to .223) and the bulk ammo. available makes for very affordable center-fire shooting.
Having not owned a Bullpup I won't say much, but they do hold on target nicely when shouldered compared to a traditional rifle and combined with their compact size it makes them a good choice for hunting.
I can't think of any other firearm in NR that hasn't already been mentioned, there just aren't that many 'Black' NR rifles at all and when you factor in the $800 buy in you've budgeted it doesn't leave many choices (none really except the Keltec SU16 if you consider it a Black rifle).
Also don't rule out the SKS as a good starter semi-auto rifle, put on a good aftermarket stock to make it more tacticool if needed. You could start out with a Rifle, 'Black Rifle Stock' & #1,000+Rds. of ammo. all combined for under your $800 budget which just can't be beat. When your done and are looking to upgrade re-sale is easy.
 
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lowandslow said:
New to the site and I am definitely getting sucked into the shooting sports. I only say AR style to differentiate it from bullpups. I'm new so if the lingo is off, feel free to explain it to me.

Does the perfect AR style 'black' rifle exist? My spec is:
-.223 Calibre
-Uses .223 pistol mags (so u can legally have 10 in the mag)
-Comes in either a restricted and unrestricted barrel. This way you could have both barrels.
-Cost less than $1k(preferably $800)
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Well when you add non-restricted and for hunting to list above you will not be able to find rifle you are looking for.

Here is what i found throughout 16 years of hunting/target shooting/ipsc competitions:
- i have separate gun for absolutely everything I do. Deer hunting/rabbit/moose/trap/birds/coyotes. Each gun is specifically
chosen for the its purpose.
Now i do understand being new and not having much money BUT trying to save some money now you will at the end cost more because
everything you buy now you will replace latter. Ask me how i know well happened to me and number of other people i know.

When one of my friends got into hunting few years back we sat down and had nice conversation, i took him to the range and
he went and spent money right at the front and could not be happier. Since most of the people could not drop tons of cash on the spot
start with one firearm at time and keep on working towards more.

I am looking at black rifle now and will most likely go with ar style restricted for about $2000- $2500 and leupold mark 6 1-6x20. It will end up costing a lot but it will last me forever and i will not have to look at other wishing i got something better.

Well just my opinion. Enjoy :)
 
If you are determined to hunt with it, I would endorse CZ 858 or the VZ 58. Both of these rifles are affordable, reliable, and more-or-less within your budget. You can get the rifle and some ammo, and get shooting with it. Add stuff to it later if you want, but just get out shooting before you spend money on anything. Try to get out and shoot with other guys who have them as well, and see what they have done (and what they haven't).

A friend of mine (and fellow CGNer) that I hunt with uses an 858 and knocks down whitetail with it no problem.
 
If I were you I would go T97 with the FTU from T97.ca, put a scope on it, and go blast away with it.

Bullpups are great due to how well they balance. If aftermarket drop in bullpup stocks were legal in canada, I would just about have to say conventional rifles and shotguns would be obsolete from my collection.

As long as your not a lefty (like myself in wich case eating brass is a problem) bullpups are no harder to get used to unless you have trained extensively with something like an AR or C7.
 
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svergas said:
Well when you add non-restricted and for hunting to list above you will not be able to find rifle you are looking for.

Here is what i found throughout 16 years of hunting/target shooting/ipsc competitions:
- i have separate gun for absolutely everything I do. Deer hunting/rabbit/moose/trap/birds/coyotes. Each gun is specifically
chosen for the its purpose.
Now i do understand being new and not having much money BUT trying to save some money now you will at the end cost more because
everything you buy now you will replace latter. Ask me how i know well happened to me and number of other people i know.

I am looking at black rifle now and will most likely go with ar style restricted for about $2000- $2500 and leupold mark 6 1-6x20. It will end up costing a lot but it will last me forever and i will not have to look at other wishing i got something better.

Well just my opinion. Enjoy :)
Click to expand...


^ Words of wisdom...
 
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