norc 14 sniper??

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Robert_Yeomans

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hey
i was just wondring if the norinco m14 would be an effective long range fireamr, i mean like how the americans use the real m14s as sniper. i know its a 308, im just wondering if the barrel and everythnig else is up to snuff with being a "decent" sniper rifle

comments please thanks
 
M14 = DMR - Designated Marksman Rifle. Fills the gap between sniper and regular infantry.

"Sniper" is a descriptive term for the man not really for the rifle. A sniper might deploy anything from a silenced .22lr at <20m to a Cheytac .408 or .50 BMG at > 2400m. It really depends on the mission.

Lots of threads here. Use the search function.

Norinco rifles are capable enough, but many require tuning to get the bugs out. If you want to play "Sniper" you'll get where you want to go alot faster with one of the many R700 options.
 
A real M14 DMR

marinesniperwithm14dmrdesktop2.jpg
 
It can be done, hungry's done some absolutely magical things with Norc M14s. I've seen prime examples do 1.2 MOA fairly consistently (Kreiger barrel and a fibreglass bedded stock are the only modifications I was aware of, he might've done more), though they do take a fair amount of tuning, work and money. Mine outta the box did 3 MOA off a bench, new stock and some parts tightening dropped that down to 2.6 MOA or so.

Probably a new barrel and proper bedding (it's just really snug in the stock) will drop that further down, and even more once I've experimented more with loadings to find out where my rifle's Happy-Bullet-Loading is. It really likes SMKs apparently.

Mind you, an out of the box savage 10FPC that costs only $600 or so will do sub MOA with fire formed cases and match grade ammo.
 
might be cheaper and more accurate to fashion a slingshot out of an old sock and fling frozen monkey #### at targets actually.
 
newfierob said:
might be cheaper and more accurate to fashion a slingshot out of an old sock and fling frozen monkey s**t at targets actually.
Click to expand...

Another individual who knows not what they speak. I definitely need more time at the range, but I just shot 2-2.5 MOA with my M14 this aft.....

t_imgp3274_reduc_161.jpg
 
I have gotten every nork M14 I have ever owned under 2 moa with very little effort. Getting them to 1 moa would require a lot of effort, but consider this:

At 500m, which is way further than most guys will ever shoot in real life, despite what they might tell you on the internet, a consistent 2 MOA gun will put EVERY ROUND within about 3 inches of a human heart.

At 750m, 95% of rounds aimed at center of mass would still be a lethal hit to vital organs - heart or lungs.

If you needed a DMR, a 2 MOA M14, which is very easy to build without interfering with reliability or creating a need for extremely particular ammo, would do the job better than 99% of shooters could appreciate.

I haven't been keeping up with it as a result of ammo cost, but I used to shoot my M14s regularly at 400m. They were extremely reliable and could produce very consistent results at that range.

On the internet, everybody talks about sub-MOA rifles, but in reality most factory ammo is not really good enough to do 1 MOA groups anyway, and it doesn't particularly matter, because a 2MOA rifle will still out shoot most guys past 200m anyway.

Unless your idea of a DMR rifle is a rifle to sit on a bench rest and look vaguely military while shooting tiny groups. For me it is a rough, rugged, reliable gun capable of lethal hits at a range beyond a typical carbine - say 250-750m.

I have no doubt that something like a KAC SR25 would be more accurate etc...but the M14 can still be a very effective DMR in my opinion.
 
I get 1.5 moa, 5 shots at 100 yards with my scoped M14 when using ammo it likes. Considerably worse with some milsurp ammo. I think I'd choose a bolt action to be honest if I were a sniper. Its much easier to have one that is twice as accurate as that. Don't get me wrong, I see the M14 as capable of fulfilling some roles, but it wouldn't be my go to if I had to achieve one shot one kill beyond 300 yards.
 
misanthropist said:
...consider this:

At 500m, which is way further than most guys will ever shoot in real life, despite what they might tell you on the internet, a consistent 2 MOA gun will put EVERY ROUND within about 3 inches of a human heart.

At 750m, 95% of rounds aimed at center of mass would still be a lethal hit to vital organs - heart or lungs.

If you needed a DMR, a 2 MOA M14, which is very easy to build without interfering with reliability or creating a need for extremely particular ammo, would do the job better than 99% of shooters could appreciate.

On the internet, everybody talks about sub-MOA rifles, but in reality most factory ammo is not really good enough to do 1 MOA groups anyway, and it doesn't particularly matter, because a 2MOA rifle will still out shoot most guys past 200m anyway.

Unless your idea of a DMR rifle is a rifle to sit on a bench rest and look vaguely military while shooting tiny groups. For me it is a rough, rugged, reliable gun capable of lethal hits at a range beyond a typical carbine - say 250-750m.
Click to expand...

Way to know your audience, Misanthropist.
:D
 
My ex Airborne Ranger, Sniper School grad buddy shot no more than 1.5 MOA with my shorty NORC with a crappy free-to-me Bushnell scope. Using surplus South African, no less. I wish I had kept the target but it was better than I could ever do.
 
I know, the OP said norc but here's some eye candy:
m14sniper.jpg


M14 in a Sage. I put 2 of my norcs into Sages and accuracy was excellent out to 200 m. (All my range had room for) Consistently got 1.5 - 2MOA with the Sage. Guys with better eyes than me would have shot better using match ammo.

There's a few other folks here that can attest to the accuracy of a norc in Sages, Troys, JAEs and others.
 
My Norc, out of the box (ie. before Hungry(pbuh) laid hands on it), with a 3-9 bushnell mounted, shot 1" groups at 100 yds. After that I replaced the chu wood stock with a USGI walnut one, and had Hungry (pbuh) lay hands on it. Still shoots 1" groups with crappy S. African surplus ammo. I can hit the 300 yd. gong at EESA about 18 times out of 20.

Oh, and none of that shooting was from a bench rest. Hands or bipod only.
 
Robert_Yeomans said:
hey
i was just wondring if the norinco m14 would be an effective long range fireamr, i mean like how the americans use the real m14s as sniper.
i know its a 308, im just wondering if the barrel and everythnig else is up to snuff with being a "decent" sniper rifle

comments please thanks
Click to expand...

It can be done, but you really should replace the barrel with something designed for consistent long range accuracy.

My M21A5 EBR is built on a Poly Tech receiver and SEI is currently replacing the standard profile barrel with a medium heavy,
4 groove, 1:10 ROT Crazy Horse barrel chambered for M118LR. I have LC M118LR and an assortment of Hornady ammo for this rifle :)


This barrel swap combined with all of the other M21A5 mods should make for an extremely accurate M21A5 CH EBR :sniper:

M21A5-CrazyHorse_Tour-De-Force.jpg
 
misanthropist said:
I have gotten every nork M14 I have ever owned under 2 moa with very little effort. Getting them to 1 moa would require a lot of effort, but consider this:

At 500m, which is way further than most guys will ever shoot in real life, despite what they might tell you on the internet, a consistent 2 MOA gun will put EVERY ROUND within about 3 inches of a human heart.

At 750m, 95% of rounds aimed at center of mass would still be a lethal hit to vital organs - heart or lungs.

If you needed a DMR, a 2 MOA M14, which is very easy to build without interfering with reliability or creating a need for extremely particular ammo, would do the job better than 99% of shooters could appreciate.

I haven't been keeping up with it as a result of ammo cost, but I used to shoot my M14s regularly at 400m. They were extremely reliable and could produce very consistent results at that range.

On the internet, everybody talks about sub-MOA rifles, but in reality most factory ammo is not really good enough to do 1 MOA groups anyway, and it doesn't particularly matter, because a 2MOA rifle will still out shoot most guys past 200m anyway.

Unless your idea of a DMR rifle is a rifle to sit on a bench rest and look vaguely military while shooting tiny groups. For me it is a rough, rugged, reliable gun capable of lethal hits at a range beyond a typical carbine - say 250-750m.

I have no doubt that something like a KAC SR25 would be more accurate etc...but the M14 can still be a very effective DMR in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Agree and second
 
misanthropist said:
I have no doubt that something like a KAC SR25 would be more accurate etc...but the M14 can still be a very effective DMR in my opinion.
Click to expand...
The KAC SR25 is OK, but the more reliable M14EBR is just as accurate and much more cost effective etc...
TACOM-RI has access to approximately 90K grade A stock M14s ready to be converted into M14EBRs.
 
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