Norc bashing is it really warranted?

Seems we have some real life feed back here and are all basically agreeing that Norcs fill that gap for a reasonable cost. But what also see here is what my buddy who is Gunsmith (has many many firearms both high end and Norincos) and he actually likes Norcs for the steel and being a good base to work with.

Springs, finish, well really what would you expect for a fraction of the cost???? Don't trust the springs than swap them out!

Biggest thing I think we have determined here is what my Gunsmith buddy also called is NORC SNOBS!

So until my kids are thru college guess I will need to just make due with these horrible Norcs.

Funny thing is I used to be a Porsche snob (mine was an air cooled boxer) so whenever a water cooled Porsche showed up at the track we all basically did the nose in the air........

I could be wrong but it seems that the Chinese improve year after year on their QC much like the Japanese have done with their autos.
 
That has not been my experience.

I have seen random variation in small parts quality that is not tied to early or late models. That is not surprising as Norinco is not really one manufacturer, but a whole bunch of different factories supplying an export company.

The Grizzly shotguns are a good example of this...barrels bored wildly off-centre, unpredictable receiver thickness...you name it.

You can get lucky and get a good one, or you can get unlucky and get a bad one.

But in my experience with most of the handguns, it's rare to see one run even 10,000 rounds without parts failure.



I'd say the biggest thing we have determined here is the continuing popularity of confirmation bias: that some people will insist that Norinco quality is adequate no matter what evidence they're presented with, because that's what they've already decided.
 
have shot many norinco guns, never had any issues, i would say norinco is just as good as any american made gun. but..you you are picky about the fine details of craftsmanship..do not buy norinco you will get irritated fast.
 
murph83 said:
have shot many norinco guns, never had any issues, i would say norinco is just as good as any american made gun. but..you you are picky about the fine details of craftsmanship..do not buy norinco you will get irritated fast.
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Like Remington QC now???
 
I've owned a lot of guns, and as a result I've owned a lot of Norincos - Type 56, Type 84, SKSx4, M14's of 3 different vintages, 2 different vintages of 1911, Tokarevs, AR15's, etc. Each of them has it's own good and bad points, but without a supply of firearms like this I wonder how many people simply wouldn't be shooting. Consider Norinco as the gateway drug - how many folks saw a cheap Norc 1911 and decided to get their restricted? How many saw the M4gery and for the first time thought I'll give it a try. Price point is important in introducing people to new experiences. As far as tinkering with guns to get them to work right out of the box - how quickly we forget, it's not that long ago that when you bought a Colt 1911 (yes the ultimate answer to every conceivable question, at a cost of $1,000 late 1980's dollars) your first stop was a gunsmith to get rid of the 8lb grit bag of a trigger and work the ramp into something that would feed anything other than jacketed 230 grain ball, and install sights that you could see without a microscope. Average cost of work for a gun that would shoot? Another shiny $600 to $1,000 late '80's/early '90' dollars. So maybe we have come a long way in the last 30 years, but I'm not sure it's fair to criticize the Norinco for being what it is - an entry level product, that generally functions as well out of the box as a 1989 Colt 1911 for less than half the price.
 
enefgee said:
I've owned a lot of guns, and as a result I've owned a lot of Norincos - Type 56, Type 84, SKSx4, M14's of 3 different vintages, 2 different vintages of 1911, Tokarevs, AR15's, etc. Each of them has it's own good and bad points, but without a supply of firearms like this I wonder how many people simply wouldn't be shooting. Consider Norinco as the gateway drug - how many folks saw a cheap Norc 1911 and decided to get their restricted? How many saw the M4gery and for the first time thought I'll give it a try. Price point is important in introducing people to new experiences. As far as tinkering with guns to get them to work right out of the box - how quickly we forget, it's not that long ago that when you bought a Colt 1911 (yes the ultimate answer to every conceivable question, at a cost of $1,000 late 1980's dollars) your first stop was a gunsmith to get rid of the 8lb grit bag of a trigger and work the ramp into something that would feed anything other than jacketed 230 grain ball, and install sights that you could see without a microscope. Average cost of work for a gun that would shoot? Another shiny $600 to $1,000 late '80's/early '90' dollars. So maybe we have come a long way in the last 30 years, but I'm not sure it's fair to criticize the Norinco for being what it is - an entry level product, that generally functions as well out of the box as a 1989 Colt 1911 for less than half the price.
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^ I think this pretty much sums up how I feel about Norinco. They're not great but they're reasonable value for what they are in most cases. If they get people into the sport who otherwise wouldn't be then they serve a valuable purpose.
 
my first norinco was a sks that i bought about 30 years ago still runs like a champ no problems and hits what i shoot at . then i bought a norinco m14 , still got that and the finish on that one is much better than the new ones . a few years ago i purchase 2- m93, 2 -1911, 2-m14, all norincos . they all shoot better than i can . my first pistol was a expensive browning hi-power ,shot about a thousand rounds , the freaking barrel lug broke off on it ,just because it is expensive and has excellent craftsmanship doesn't mean it won't screw up . my buddy bought a remington shot gun took it to the range it didn't even go bang , we told him he should have bought a norinco , at lest it would have gone bang hahah . when high end guns screw up it is swept under the table and forgot about it but if a norinco screws up u never hear the end of it . would i buy another norinco , u betcha
 
Thank you!!

Forgot about my satin/nickel Colt Commander I bought in the 80s and had to replace the sights and do the feed ramp polish, polish the trigger components, and open up the slide port for cases!!

Funny how we just expected to tune our American .45s for comp... Guess some things just don' change. :)

Does this apply to my Colt Commander or are American guns really all that different?

misanthropist said:
Anyone who tells you "norinco is just as good as anybody" is probably insufficiently experienced with guns, period, to be worth listening to.QUOTE]

THIS x 100

Glad to see you are out shooting is the best part.
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randyhub said:
Okay I own an NP-34 and really like it, upgraded the grips and installed the SRT. It always has shot well but I keep hearing over and over how bad these are and always see so many Norc bashing... But I also hear many as myself being quite happy. I have had Colts, Rugers, Berettas over the past 20 plus years so not really a newbie here.

If I didn't have to raise a family I would have the best but I am on a budget but still want to shoot. I have a Grizzly shorty as well and it is great too. Also had a couple of M305s with no issues but sold them due to ammo costs.

So let's hear from actual Norc owners that have had actual failures as opposed to critics that have never owned one.

Just getting tired of the Norc bashing and want some numbers based on actual experiences and pictures if possible.

So let's see what actual owners have to say and please if you don't own one please refrain from posting opinions as I really just want those who experienced the good and bad of Norincos.

Just can't help to think with all the horror stories that retailers would still sell them.

Now I understand that these are only are fraction of the cost of the guns they are cloned after but with that in mind are they that bad? I know I liked my Grizzly so much I sold my 870 Remington bush gun and well anyone who shoots this latest model NP-34 is pleasantly surprised how it feels and shoots.

Am I missing something here after having Norcs for years?
Thanks
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No bashing here. I have a (very up graded) norc m14. Although the only original parts are the barrel, receiver, bolt and trigger group, I have thousands of rounds down the pipe with no issues to speak of. I'm very happy and will probably look at one of their 1911's some day just out of affordability.
 
I'd say the biggest thing we have determined here is the continuing popularity of confirmation bias: that some people will insist that Norinco quality is adequate no matter what evidence they're presented with, because that's what they've already decided.

......and I would also say .... "Visa-versa"
 
I own many and they all function great. I do have a T2 I haven't tried yet, but it functions great with dummy loads. My 12.5 Griz mag also runs great with both of the mags I've used. The thing I find with Norcs is you have to put some rounds down range and they improve with use.
 
silver69 said:
I'd say the biggest thing we have determined here is the continuing popularity of confirmation bias: that some people will insist that Norinco quality is adequate no matter what evidence they're presented with, because that's what they've already decided.

......and I would also say .... "Visa-versa"
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Kind of condescending, really. Like it or not enough people have had good experiences with these things to figure that they're worth buying, yep, they're cheap and no they aren't perfect, but enough of them function well enough for people to keep buying them, and if that means there are more people shooting, I'm good with that. I should mention that I have also owned Colt AR's x2, a TRW M14, a Lithgow FAL, Colt 1911's x2, Springfield 1911's x2, A Steyr AUG, an early Bushmaster, and an HK94 among other 'unusual' guns. I currently own a Norc 1911 compact - and while I don't shoot it much (around 5000 rounds total) it's a nice change from the Glocks and the M&P (which has 50K through it) and is entirely adequate in function and accuracy - at least for someone with 'confirmation bias'
 
Bought an NP34, first time I fully loaded one of the mags the base plate broke and fell to the ground along with the spring, follower and all the rounds. I was not impressed. Replaced with Sig factory base plates which were cheap. Also the muzzle crown was off to one side, main spring seemed very weak, general impression poor quality and cheap. Shot it once and then sold it to a buddy.

He says he loves it, that it is extremely reliable and accurate, compared to his Glock 9mm which he now hates due to repeated FTF and FTE probably because the GenIII springs are too strong for 9mm or he is limp-wristing it. Very happy and doesn't see the point of buying a real Sig.

Go figure.
 
randyhub said:
Thank you!!

Forgot about my satin/nickel Colt Commander I bought in the 80s and had to replace the sights and do the feed ramp polish, polish the trigger components, and open up the slide port for cases!!

Funny how we just expected to tune our American .45s for comp... Guess some things just don' change. :)

Does this apply to my Colt Commander or are American guns really all that different?

misanthropist said:
Anyone who tells you "norinco is just as good as anybody" is probably insufficiently experienced with guns, period, to be worth listening to.QUOTE]

THIS x 100

Glad to see you are out shooting is the best part.
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If all most Norincos needed was tuning for competition, I would say they were basically interchangeable with 30-year-old US manufacturing from the most notorious period in that company's history, yes.

My experience has been that in order to run to a reasonable round count without parts failure, they usually need a bunch of issues fixed.
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