Norc M14... Convince me it's worth it....

mlehtovaara

mlehtovaara

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Alright guys, I need to know what the deal is with these M14's.

I am looking at the new Shorty M14's with alot of interest these days, and don't know what to think about them. The finish sucks, but I can live with that, but there is the occasional reports of accuracy issues, and bad ones escaping the factory.

I am thinking my next rifle purchase is going to be one of these, and I will start reloading .308 for it, as well as the next big game rifle I have in mind for hunting purposes. Makes sense to have both guns in the same calibre, and if I can reload why not......

Anyways, what needs to be changed to make these an accurate, and reliable gun?

I am planning on sticking to Irons, and have no interest in scoping it if that means anything.

I know Hungry says "don't buy one, buy two" but I am not interested in throwing a whole bunch of money at this gun! I can buy a hell of alot nicer gun for $1000 so I don't want to spend that!

I will not be happy with 4-6 inch groups at 100m! If it doesn't shoot 2 inches I don't want it.

I guess I just need to know if I am out to lunch on my expectations, so I can give up the idea........

Thanks for the help.
M
 
It a a copy of a semi battle rifle
If it doesn't shoot 2 inches I don't want it.
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most likely it wont

But
there cheep for what they are

there lots of fun
and you can use it for big game hunting --> if you can carry it

Name me 1 other main battle rifle that will shoot under 2 inch groups --- > for less than $500

the norinco M4 is just under the $700 dollar mark and can only be used at a approved range
 
It's a pretty low-risk gamble. If the rifle won't shoot decently you'll certainly be able to unload it on the EE for not a lot less than you paid for it.

As others have pointed out in other threads, finding the right load is going to be the biggest factor. Personally I have no idea if my rifles can shoot 2MOA or better with irons, but that's a meat problem not a metal one.
 
I just bought one. Here's what I think the 'deal' is with them:

Guns are fun. These are - right now - quite a bargain. Mine was $459 with two mags from SFRC. IIRC, these have gone much higher in price on at least two occasions in the past. (I might be wrong though? I've never had much interest until recently.)

There is a ton of excellent information about tuning and accurizing these, and some great accessories available, including recently those from M14.ca - Blackfeather RS stock, CASM scope mounts, etc.

As mentioned before, if you don't like it for whatever reason, it's not likely that you'll lose much money at all when you unload it on the EE.

Lastly, if you somehow get a real lemon - that can't be fixed with simple tricks on your bench at home - Marstar, SFRC and others have excellent warranty policies.
 
If you have time to do a little work, totally worth it for the price. Aside from the base rifle ($560 after shipping and taxes), I've put in maybe another $200 for a NEA oversized bolt release, USGI spec op rod spring and a Sadlak spring guide. Hungry and I did some work tightening up my rifle and re-indexing, so cost of gas of going to meet up with him. Not an overly pricey endevour when you consider a SA one would cost you 1500+

As far as groupings go...aside from the customary flier, I'm getting around 3 inch groupings if I take my time. That's with cheap commercial stuff, a nearsighted dominant eye and I'm also very green to the shooting world, so I don't doubt my rifle might out shoot me for the time being. I hear custom loads tighten the groupings up a lot too, once you find the right one. I have no regrets with this rifle and I plan on getting a 700 in .308 eventually for tack driving anyway. Of course, YMMV.

If you can get to a shop and actually look at the rifle, you'll liken the odds even more for finding a nice one.

img0919tg.jpg
 
You can shoot 2 inches at 100 m with the iron sights no problem. All I have done was upgrade the spring and guide and tighten up the op rod guide.



mlehtovaara said:
Alright guys, I need to know what the deal is with these M14's.

I am looking at the new Shorty M14's with alot of interest these days, and don't know what to think about them. The finish sucks, but I can live with that, but there is the occasional reports of accuracy issues, and bad ones escaping the factory.

I am thinking my next rifle purchase is going to be one of these, and I will start reloading .308 for it, as well as the next big game rifle I have in mind for hunting purposes. Makes sense to have both guns in the same calibre, and if I can reload why not......

Anyways, what needs to be changed to make these an accurate, and reliable gun?

I am planning on sticking to Irons, and have no interest in scoping it if that means anything.

I know Hungry says "don't buy one, buy two" but I am not interested in throwing a whole bunch of money at this gun! I can buy a hell of alot nicer gun for $1000 so I don't want to spend that!

I will not be happy with 4-6 inch groups at 100m! If it doesn't shoot 2 inches I don't want it.

I guess I just need to know if I am out to lunch on my expectations, so I can give up the idea........

Thanks for the help.
M
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If you need convincing to buy it, you don't want it. If you want a precision rifle, don't buy anything that costs under $500. If you're worried about your grouping size, don't buy a Norinco. If you want a fun, semi auto, battle rifle that will put rounds on a man sized target at 200-300 yards without a ton of tinkering, then its perfect.
 
There was one in the Ed for 300 I missed it by ten minutes. It's cheep enough to try out with a crate of ammo also fairly cheep for metal cased surp type. The receivers are all metal and good forged metal the Springfield is cast. Original copy off of us gov dies so it practically is a us gun with a rougher unpolished finish. Tones of mods you can do I hear there addictive. I was told if you cast your own bullets they feed that and all other ammo no problems. Dude it's twice the price of an sks and there cheep. I hear they are great for what they are if your shooting a semi and want less then a 3 moa get a Swiss arms but then you pay for it and its only 223. I vote buy I will too eventually. The Ee is awesome because its like taking the hottest car you could never afford to the range trying it out and then sell for roughly what you paid as guns don't really loose there value as Long as there lightly used.
 
my first shorty blew up:exsesive headspace after 200 rounds. My second one is currently at 8 thousands of an inch past a field gauge (max allowable) after a mere 300 rounds and $800 being dumped into it, just think another $350 for the bolt and barrel (only that low because I am tacking it onto my LRB order) and it can actualy shoot again!

My conclusion with norcs is if you actualy shoot them more then a box or two per range trip its going to end up costing the same as a real M14 to deal with the problems as they crop up. Maybe you get a good one, but after ### rounds your going to have to start fixing issues, regardless of wether its a norc or not. Norc likes to weld and rivet things on the realy have no bussiness being welded or riveted , and breaking removing these items is 50/50 on weather you wreck the part or not.

Moral of the story.... just pony up and get a LRB, the finish is better, the quility is top notch, and its the same price as a tricked out norc only without the headache.
 
I brought mine out for the first time and apparently mine was "over indexed" and I was shooting clay sporting targets on logs at 100 yards with irons no problem..
 
LordEvilPepper said:
my first shorty blew up:exsesive headspace after 200 rounds. My second one is currently at 8 thousands of an inch past a field gauge (max allowable) after a mere 300 rounds and $800 being dumped into it, just think another $350 for the bolt and barrel (only that low because I am tacking it onto my LRB order) and it can actualy shoot again!

My conclusion with norcs is if you actualy shoot them more then a box or two per range trip its going to end up costing the same as a real M14 to deal with the problems as they crop up. Maybe you get a good one, but after ### rounds your going to have to start fixing issues, regardless of wether its a norc or not. Norc likes to weld and rivet things on the realy have no bussiness being welded or riveted , and breaking removing these items is 50/50 on weather you wreck the part or not.

Moral of the story.... just pony up and get a LRB, the finish is better, the quility is top notch, and its the same price as a tricked out norc only without the headache.
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Good advise.
 
mlehtovaara said:
I guess this is really the case........

The price is really attractive I guess, and I am a sucker for a good deal, but as others have said, if it needs a bunch of time and money thrown at it, it isn't such a good deal.
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And if you happen to git a lemon, bring it to me and we can make 'lemonade' out of it. Just needs some TLC and some tweaking. Can you say, "BFH?"

(big hammer) :D

I got yer backs, even if I am a tweaker and not a gunsmith, most of the issues can be ironed out at my clinics. I just did the Burlington Clinic last Sat 16 Feb and we had a great time and lots of laughs! :)

Cheers,
Barney
 
If it doesn't shoot 2 inches I don't want it.
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Doable some of the time with good quality hand loads. But it will prove to be almost impossible to get a consistent (all day every day) 2 MOA.

I'm guessing it won't be your cup o tea.
 
As always it would be best if you could inspect the rifle beforehand . For the price of them a good value
These overall are are a pretty good copy of a very good battlerifle and a few comman issues show up on them occasionally .
And these in most cases are things that you can fix yourself ( lots of help on here).
If you want to use iron sights make sure yours work well or get a set of Garand rear sights .
Make sure the barrel indexing is correct (front sight is not canted left or right) .
Get a replacement Op rod spring guide , make sure gas locking ring locks nice and tight at 6:00 position .
Make a whole lotta ammo and shoot it ..
 
To the OP, the rifle is what it is, a non-restricted .308 semi that has lots of parts available for incremental upgrades. Out-of-the-box with you may have some issues like indexing, or none at all. Issues causing true operational failures are rare - LordEvil's mention of a headspace related failure is the only one that I've come across. Most issues (as well as upgrades) can be done at home with a little research and some help from folks like Hungry (thanks for the Burlington Clinic btw - great fun and sooper meeting Skeetgunner and the other M14 Nutz).

I have yet (in over 6 Norcs) to see any that have not been able to shoot under 4" at 100 either out-of-the-box or with a little, and I mean little TLC. After that, its a combination of hobby, art and science to to improve the performance. In my view the M305 is the cheapest platform for fun, tweaking and learning about accuracy and reloading.

Out-of-the box (assuming no huge indexing or sight issues) with cheap surplus ammo, I'd say that you would get anything from 2" to 4" groups (depending on the fit of your particular rifle) with iron sights. Ammo makes a huge difference with good commercial grade potentially closing those groups closer to the lower part of that range - fliers are a common problem. The other tweaks help as well and are generally cheap (Op. Rod guide - $40, unitizing - $85, shimming - $20 or free, bedding) although I can't put a figure on how much they improve your groups. Stock upgrades are nice-to-haves and potentially more expensive - group improvement can vary from none to lots. Barrel upgrade...expensive $400 to ?? and perhaps the biggest accuracy improvement (I wanna try this and talking to Hungry has worsened my condition...damn you Barney :)

On my Norc I'm at 1.5" to 3" groups with 168 gr. Hornady Match. The 3" groups mostly caused by one round fliers spoiling 1" to 1.5" groups. As Hungry says, at worst you've bought a $1,200 receiver with tons of free parts YMMV.
 
When looking into .308 semi rifles in nonrestricted there are not many under 2000$ ex. RFB , XCR , M1A ... The new Remington auto loaders are junk my local shop sent a whole batch back ! Get one and tweak it go to a clinic usgi or Boyd's stock new flash hider new sights a spring guide then work up a hand load there you have it under 2 MOA battle rifle for under 1000$
 
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