Norc M14 Gremlins?

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djmay71

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Howdy, Battle Rifle 'Nutz!

The other day on my day-to-day gun calendar, an shorty Spingfield M1A popped up with a reflex slight. All I can say, is that it looked badass.

With that in mind, I have renewed my interest in Norc M14s, since I don't have the cash to spring for a Springfield. (Get it?)

That being said, I'd be interested in getting the same accuracy result as my current DMR project. That result? To be able to hit a 2'x6' target at 700 metres. Is it possible? What mods should be done?
((Now sure, my range is limited to 100 metres, but just go with it, ok?))
 
Shouldn't need a whole lot as far as mods go to hit that size target. Most stock and lightly moded norc's I've shot have been 2 to 4 MOA guns. So you would be looking at a 14 to 28 inch group at 700. 2 feet is 24 inches so I think you would be pretty happy to begin with. My norc with my lackluster shooting shoots 3 to 4 inches at 100 yards. I'm sure it would shoot into 2 inches with a better shooter. The best part of all? They run well out of the box.
 
If you correct minor problems, like loosely fitted parts, poorly fitted stock, etc and have a decent barrel, you should be able to shoot 1.5moa or less with decent ammo. I'm still shooting with an original barrel, and getting that accuracy. Just don't overlook ammo, as that's as important as anything in the equation. In my experience, milsurp ammo just doesn't cut it, I've alway gotten 3-4" groups with that kind of ammo.

Mods I've done so far: 1)replaced oprod spring guide with a tubular one 2)appropriate diameter recoil spring for the spring guide 3)tightened gas system 4)tig welded barrel band to gas system 5)bedded into GI glass stock 6) Smith M21 scope mount 7)handloads using 168gr bullets
 
Grizzlypeg said:
If you correct minor problems, like loosely fitted parts, poorly fitted stock, etc and have a decent barrel, you should be able to shoot 1.5moa or less with decent ammo. I'm still shooting with an original barrel, and getting that accuracy. Just don't overlook ammo, as that's as important as anything in the equation. In my experience, milsurp ammo just doesn't cut it, I've alway gotten 3-4" groups with that kind of ammo.

Mods I've done so far: 1)replaced oprod spring guide with a tubular one 2)appropriate diameter recoil spring for the spring guide 3)tightened gas system 4)tig welded barrel band to gas system 5)bedded into GI glass stock 6) Smith M21 scope mount 7)handloads using 168gr bullets
Click to expand...

Thats actually one question I didn't get to in the original post: How reliable can these Norcs be, bone stock, out of the box, with nothing done, expect making sure that its all there? Because ideally, I'm more into having a gun that is capable of shooting right out of the box without the worry that something may go terribly wrong.
 
Should be a piece of cake..............knocking down man size targets is what it was originally designed to do, but oops!!! I dropped my politcal correctness didnt I...I should have said person sized targets..oooppps lets settle for large targets incase some Lib is wetting his panties right now...........Ammo will be a big factor tho...really youll be amazed I still am.....

Have fun
 
Lost...again said:
Should be a piece of cake..............knocking down man size targets is what it was originally designed to do, but oops!!! I dropped my politcal correctness didnt I...I should have said person sized targets..oooppps lets settle for large targets incase some Lib is wetting his panties right now...........Ammo will be a big factor tho...really youll be amazed I still am.....

Have fun
Click to expand...

Even without changing out the Op Rod & recoil spring, fixing the gas system and welding the barrel band? Don't get me wrong, I'd maintain it, but I don't want to be putting in more time, effort and cash into a firearm that may or may not be worth it.

EDIT: Out of all the mounting options available which is the best one? The ARMS18?
 
No worries. The gas system just makes sense and it doesnt take 5 minutes to do, you can find details in the stickies. The op rod swap is nice but unless you desperately need to get 2moa youll be fine. A lot of good things happen when you take the bugger apart and rebuild it properly,tightening up everything that moves. See the stickies again and look for Hungrys sticky the man will steer you right.
I have a bog standard Norc apart from the Promag stock and a scope.
Before I tightened everything up I was getting 4 inch groups at 200 yds, after tightening I went below 4 and sometimes nearer to 3 inches at same distance.Without spending a dime. Now that Im experimenting with different ammo Im getting close to 2 inches at 200 yds, and if thats as good as it gets Im happy.....but....a lot of good people out there swear by the op rod swap...Im not ready to go there yet.
At the end of the day you could spend as much money as you want , your choice but I would advise suck it and see. It will definitely do what you want it to do once you find the magic bullet for YOUR gun.
Dont see anyone on here who regrets buying theirs eh :)
 
Grizzlypeg said:
If you correct minor problems, like loosely fitted parts, poorly fitted stock, etc and have a decent barrel, you should be able to shoot 1.5moa or less with decent ammo. I'm still shooting with an original barrel, and getting that accuracy. Just don't overlook ammo, as that's as important as anything in the equation. In my experience, milsurp ammo just doesn't cut it, I've alway gotten 3-4" groups with that kind of ammo.

Mods I've done so far: 1)replaced oprod spring guide with a tubular one 2)appropriate diameter recoil spring for the spring guide 3)tightened gas system 4)tig welded barrel band to gas system 5)bedded into GI glass stock 6) Smith M21 scope mount 7)handloads using 168gr bullets
Click to expand...

This guy said it right. You asked are Norc m14's reliable out of the box. The answer is yes. They are also very easy to make more accurate. I own a shorty and a regular length Norc (from Canam and Marstar respectively) that I just tuned up at the epic East meets West 4-day clinic in 100 mile BC. I did the most common mods and after working on my own and seeing what others were doing or had done to their rifles I know what else I am going to/need to do.

Note these mods have nothing to do with making the rifle more reliable just more accurate. Now go buy one before your #### falls off. Better yet buy two!
 
Let me introduce you to a true MOA Norinco rifle that hold's 1 inch at a 100 meter's not yards that bullet weight dosn't really matter that much to it's accuracy...

IMG00732-20120630-0001.jpg

IMG00731-20120630-0000.jpg


Lets just say that it is worth it's weight but the only thing left from the Norinco rifle is the reciever. Now there are many all stock Norinco's I have own/owned that I had done too the Doc's instructions and got them all around the 1.5 to 2 inch mark at 100 meter's but then again very little in and a lot out. If you want bolt accuary than stick to a bolt but if you want to hit multiple targets be fore you can cycle a bolt accuratley than this is the rifle platform that you are looking for.
 
You may want to snoop around at M14forum.com. the best idea is to shoot it first and see what it does. From what I have read fwiw out of the box results have been mixed. To go further most groups were cut in half by spending under 100 bucks and using a Saturday.. documents,videos and forum info exist end mass. The idea here is to modify it only if you need to. I invested in the black feather stock and frank is giving you everything you need to make the gun accurate including spring guide. With some love my gun should be shooting minute of pie plate at 200 yards all day without trying. So for roughly $1200 you can get a shooter.
 
djmay71 said:
Howdy, Battle Rifle 'Nutz!

The other day on my day-to-day gun calendar, an shorty Spingfield M1A popped up with a reflex slight. All I can say, is that it looked badass.

With that in mind, I have renewed my interest in Norc M14s, since I don't have the cash to spring for a Springfield. (Get it?)

That being said, I'd be interested in getting the same accuracy result as my current DMR project. That result? To be able to hit a 2'x6' target at 700 metres. Is it possible? What mods should be done?
((Now sure, my range is limited to 100 metres, but just go with it, ok?))
Click to expand...

EOHC outside Ottawa is 200yds .... and Connaught goes to 1000yds (well it might be 900m).
 
djmay71 said:
Even without changing out the Op Rod & recoil spring, fixing the gas system and welding the barrel band? Don't get me wrong, I'd maintain it, but I don't want to be putting in more time, effort and cash into a firearm that may or may not be worth it.

EDIT: Out of all the mounting options available which is the best one? The ARMS18?
Click to expand...

You don't need to do these things to make the gun reliable. Just clean it, lube it, and make sure the gas plug is tight and it should operate reliably with proper ammunition. About the only thing I've noticed that might actually affect operation of the rifle was that on one gun the wood stock contacted the op rod as the bolt was nearing closing. That just takes a moment to shave away some offending wood.

I read good things about the Arms 18 mount. I have good experience with the Smith Enterprises product and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.
 
To make it reliable: clean it fully...then grease the specific points that require greasing (don't just grease everything, look up the info as to which specific places to grease).

It's reasonably good accuracy right out of the box. First time I brought my BONE STOCK M-14 to the range, with the sole intention of zeroing the iron sights...at the end of the day I took aim at a 12" square steel gong. 17 hits out of 20 shots. Now, that might not sound impressive...but consider:

-heavy gritty trigger pull
-just finished a "rough" zero, using iron sight adjustments I wasn't yet fully familiar with
-original Chinese iron sights...which can sometimes be a weak link (serious iron sight shooters replace these)
-stock original spring guide (replacing these with "national match" or "round" spring guide helps a lot)
-original Chinese plastic stock (not the best for accuracy)
-cheap-ass "budget" ammo known as MFS
-unfamiliar with the rifle at that point
-fake "flash hider" that had no cut slots...so while the bullet is in free flight, the muzzle blast is still contained in 3 inches of "can"! Pretty poor for accuracy, replaced a week later with a proper FH (thanks Doc!)

So we replaced the flash hider with a proper one with vent cuts, I cleaned up the trigger, I replaced the iron sights with Springfield NM units (too expensive, but I wanted them and still like them!). Then we TIG welded the gas system (like NM modifications done for old US Army shooting teams, and the M-21 sniper system, and M-14 clinics).

-same stock
-same crappy spring guide
-same cheap-ass "budget" ammo known as MFS

Had to re-zero it again...new iron sight components installed you see...I messed up part of the procedure for tightening the rear drum. Might have been one or two clicks "off" of my rough zero.

Result? 20 rounds, 20 solid hits, rapid fire, 200m

No, it's not the same thing as saying "uh, 1.5 MOA", because frankly I've not had the time or money to have done any more shooting with it, changed careers and provinces! But, this is four magazines worth in about a minute or so, hitting a square steel plate using iron sights, 200m, with budget ammo.

Could I improve upon that? Absolutely:

-do a full proper extensive zero
-experiment with many brands of .308 ammo (but not the heavy boolets, they just wreck things!)
-install the spring guide I bought today ($35 from TSE, this one is fluted for lighter weight)
-buy a better stock and bed it, or buy an expensive stock that doesn't need bedding (JAE, most of the aluminum based stocks)
-read up on other accurizing modifications I'm not yet aware of
 
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