Norinco 1911 jamming

Redbearded1

Redbearded1

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
12   0   1
Location
Beaverlodge, Alberta
Okay ladies and gents, I've got a pistol problem. Not sure if it should be posted in the gunsmithing section or here but I figured I'd try here first. Lets get started:

So I have a norinco 1911 that gave me some problems last weekend. The gun is about 2 years old but has a low round count, approx. 200. I experienced 5 jams in less than 20 rounds. The first 2 were able to clear by getting putting a little muscle into it. The rest needed a brass hammer ( or linesman pliers) to force the slide to move.

The gun jams during recoil. The slide moves rearward about 1/4'" then locks up with the spent casing still in the chamber. This is not a stovepipe. The casing looks alright after I finally get it open. A small gauge near the rim is the only mark I can see on it. The chamber is clean and the gun is always lubricated.

IMG_0500_zps2248e29f.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
Jam.
IMG_0502_zpsf67e0675.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
There is the freed casing.

There was a very small burr on the top of the chamber, close to the outer edge. And I had a few rounds weakly extract when hand cycling rounds. The jam happened both with the norinco and kimber mags and with norinco ammo and hornady.

Has anyone come across this before? I cant seem to find this exact problem anywhere else on the net.
 
Last edited:
Have you broken it down and inspected the barrel and frame lugs and the barrel link?
Did you remove the magazine before using the pliers and hammer?
 
Can-down said:
Have you broken it down and inspected the barrel and frame lugs and the barrel link?
Did you remove the magazine before using the pliers and hammer?
Click to expand...

I did. The barrel lugs look good except for the slightest bit of peening possibly starting on the rear lug. I started closer inspection after posting and the barrel link does have a strange gouge in it. As if it is binding on the left side. I will post more pics soon of both of those.

I also did remove the magazine before forcing the slide.

Factory ammunition. I've shot reloads but don't recall them giving any issues. This isn't the first time I've shot the gun, just the first time in a while. It happened once before when I first got it. But then I've had roughly 200 trouble free rounds till now.
 
More questions.

So when it stops, what is stopping the action? Fired brass stuck in chamber or other parts of slide / frame? If its the case getting stuck in barrel then it's an issue or combination of issues with tight chamber, too heavy recoil spring perhaps, too heavy mainspring. What happens if you drop the mag when jammed?

That looks like Norc ammo. Weak charge? I find Norc ammo pretty dirty and can foul gun pretty quick too.
 
triplepete said:
More questions.

So when it stops, what is stopping the action? Fired brass stuck in chamber or other parts of slide / frame? If its the case getting stuck in barrel then it's an issue or combination of issues with tight chamber, too heavy recoil spring perhaps, too heavy mainspring. What happens if you drop the mag when jammed?

That looks like Norc ammo. Weak charge? I find Norc ammo pretty dirty and can foul gun pretty quick too.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if its an issue of case binding in chamber or a slide issue.

I'll give a run of the sequence of things: I fire the gun. The slide moves rearward roughly 1/4" then stops. Jammed up HARD. the slide will not even wiggle forward or back. The case seems solid in the chamber, but you cans really get at it to check for play. When I drop the mag, nothing changes. The jam is still there and just as difficult to clear.

There are 2 ways I've got it open. The first few times I was able to put the edge of the slide on a wood block and very forcefully shove the slide rearward. The second is to tap the slide forward with a brass hammer( actually a brass hammer pressed up against the slide, and a claw hammer tapping the brass ) until it is fully forward. Then I'm able to rack the slide by hand, ejecting the spent round.
 
At first I thought maybe the extractor was loose or not set right, causing it to yank the casing at a strange angle and jam it into the little tiny nick I found inside the chamber. Now I'm not so sure. The casing doesn't show any evidence of a gouge from the nick. But the rear of the casings do show a mark where the extractor has been skipping over the rim during feeding. I'm not sure how normal that is.

The slide doesn't appear to show any strange wear but the barrel link does. The slide rails don't feel super smooth either. Not really rough, but not super smooth.

I appreciate all the input so far and any help you folks can give me!
 
That looks like the same jam I had, it was so bad even when I put my body weight to free the slide it still wouldn't move. In the end I had to stick a brass rod down the barrel and pound the casing back down to free it. A friend of my told me this is likely do to improper reload, there wasn't enough charge to cycle the action fully, casing couldn't get ejected and slide is slamming shut already. I been back to the range a few time since the jam, the issue did not re-occur, hopefully this is also the case with yours.
 
FXSTBI06 said:
That looks like the same jam I had, it was so bad even when I put my body weight to free the slide it still wouldn't move. In the end I had to stick a brass rod down the barrel and pound the casing back down to free it. A friend of my told me this is likely do to improper reload, there wasn't enough charge to cycle the action fully, casing couldn't get ejected and slide is slamming shut already. I been back to the range a few time since the jam, the issue did not re-occur, hopefully this is also the case with yours.
Click to expand...

The malfunction your friend describes sound more like a stovepipe. My action isn't fully cycling, but rather jamming before the slide moves fully rearward. Unfortunately it is becoming more and more repeatable in my case. It's happened with different ammo types and it seems as whatever is causing it is getting worse.
 
How tight is the barrel to bushing fit? If there is any excess play the barrel may not drop down properly. I find my Norc barrel has quite deep lugs and I need to keep the bushing in before I can remove it from the slide sometimes. Any slight angle off axis and its finicky to remove. Odd I know but worth looking at.

I been taught to properly clear a jam is to firmly grasp the slide and force your other hand in to grip basically hitting and grabbing. That sharp jar should force the slide back, just be sure to grab right away in case slide slips away. I have never had a jam so tight I required tools and hammers.
 
What does it look like on the barrel lug where the slide stop rests when the barrel is locked up?
Is it uneven like this, This one has been marked with a felt pan and then cycled and you can see it's not bearing on both sides.
BarrelFeetPainted_800.jpg


You can put the slide stop through the link and check to make sure that it's not binding up against the barrel lug during it's travel.
 
Can-down said:
What does it look like on the barrel lug where the slide stop rests when the barrel is locked up?
Is it uneven like this, This one has been marked with a felt pan and then cycled and you can see it's not bearing on both sides.
BarrelFeetPainted_800.jpg


You can put the slide stop through the link and check to make sure that it's not binding up against the barrel lug during it's travel.
Click to expand...

I tried using a sharpie and then cycling the action a bunch.The wear marks show at the bottom of the lug but evenly on each side. My camera doesn't get that close to show it.
The link feels a bit sloppy side to side. And there is a definite notch worn into one side.
IMG_0517_zpsed6146e6.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

The first pic shows the link resting in the wear notch.
IMG_0518_zps9574bb2a.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
The second pic shows the wear pattern.
 
Redbearded1 said:
IMG_0513_zps6fd88081.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

I tried to take a picture of the barrel lug and small mark near the outside of the chamber but they wouldn't show up on camera.
Click to expand...


Not a expert but been around a few 1911s
The mark on the brass is a extractor mark --> not serious and not your problem
Mark on the side of the barrel in picture above is peening from the extractor not being fit right

If you look at the barrel kink in the above picture -I see a mark where the barrel lug is catching on the barrel kink ---- this is your your problem barrel is fitted wrong one side is longer than the other and when barrel is locked up it is twisting and causing the jam


Fix-----> take it to a expert
Possible need to replace one or more of the below
Barrel
link
link pin
Extractor

And if you have to replace the barrel get a match barrel bushing fitted
and or replace the sights at the same time if you want to
 
Last edited:
Ahhhhh good eye sir. I looked a little closer at the gun and its not the extractor that but the slide around the extractor that's peening it.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Now I have a few more questions though, what causes these peen marks to occur on such a low round count? Is the barrel too soft? It doesn't seem normal that the gun is slowly smashing itself to bits. If I get a new barrel with the same marks show up?

Thanks for all the help folks!
 
the barrel is not too soft, if it was hard enough NOT to peen, it would fail under load in brittle fracture. The problem is something doesn't fit right...You need someone who knows how to fit up a 1911 barrel to look at it, or return it if it's still under warrantee
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom