Norinco .223 ammo issues in my Colt AR
- Thread starter richmyster
- Start date
ChrisAlston
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Seeing as you said you are cycling them manually, are you per chance "riding" the action? Or letting the bolt go home under full pressure? If you ride the bolt and not let it cycle under full spring pressure this can happen.
Here's an example of some of my mags. Most of them needed some "work"...
From left to right.
D&H mags rivet did not fit well in the mag well, Had to file them. But as mentioned earlier they did hold and had to put new rivets the proper way.
Middle one is a C-Product. I got them with the rivets on the side! Facepalm! Half the time spring was getting stuck in the rivet pin. not reliable at all!!
Right one is a perfectly reliable C-Product rivet job. Never had any issues in years. Anti tilt followers.
Worst place ever!
Example of a GOOD rivet job. Flush on the right side of the mag. Never caused a single malfunction.
Cheers.
From left to right.
D&H mags rivet did not fit well in the mag well, Had to file them. But as mentioned earlier they did hold and had to put new rivets the proper way.
Middle one is a C-Product. I got them with the rivets on the side! Facepalm! Half the time spring was getting stuck in the rivet pin. not reliable at all!!
Right one is a perfectly reliable C-Product rivet job. Never had any issues in years. Anti tilt followers.
Worst place ever!
Example of a GOOD rivet job. Flush on the right side of the mag. Never caused a single malfunction.
Cheers.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
By manually I meant without firing the weapon. If I use the charging handle I can slam the bolt shut with enough force to not jam it most of the time. When I use the bolt release they immediately jam pretty much 100% of the time.
As for the safety of loading a firearm in the home, get over it people. As previously stated by myself and others, people load their guns in their home every day. Firing pins generally don't strike the primer unless the trigger is pulled... people in the states load their firearms in their home for self Defense daily without issues. I don't need to be lectured by people afraid of their own shadow, and who don't trust their fingers enough to not turn the safety off and stay out of the trigger guard.
If you have nothing of importance to add leave it at the door. The thread is for my feeding issue, not your irrational fears. Do cops only load their firearms outside as well? Get over it.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
Here's an example of some of my mags. Most of them needed some "work"...
From left to right.
D&H mags rivet did not fit well in the mag well, Had to file them. But as mentioned earlier they did hold and had to put new rivets the proper way.
Middle one is a C-Product. I got them with the rivets on the side! Facepalm! Half the time spring was getting stuck in the rivet pin. not reliable at all!!
Right one is a perfectly reliable C-Product rivet job. Never had any issues in years. Anti tilt followers.
Worst place ever!
Example of a GOOD rivet job. Flush on the right side of the mag. Never caused a single malfunction.
Cheers.
I definitely think my rivets are going to have to come out and get re-done.
You can check the mags manually by pulling the end plate off. If you can move the spring and follower easily without it catching on the rivet (but still stopping at the 5 round mark of course), then your mags are fine. If not, then the spring is riding on the rivet, causing the follower to tilt which causes misfeeding.
I have several dozen PMags, and the ones with the larger rivets did that. I had to pull all those and install shorter rivets. Problem solved.
I have several dozen PMags, and the ones with the larger rivets did that. I had to pull all those and install shorter rivets. Problem solved.
Cycling full mags of live rounds through a gun in your home to try and determine feeding issues is not exactly the same as responsible carry in the US now is it....
Another classic example of "how did you ever get a PAL" here I see.
The more you and TS post about how this is OK and normal, the more oblivious and careless the action comes across. I guess dummy rounds and safety first are foreign concepts.....
Glad I don't live anywhere near the 2 of you.
ChrisAlston
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Ok was just curious, if you're jamming up from using the bolt release then yeah you definitely have an issue. Likely the spring or follower dragging on the rivet, as others have suggested. I only buy mags that are riveted on the spine and as flush as possible, and I've never had feeding issues from any sort of ammo. Your P-mags with rivets on the side sound very suspect, I've never even seen them riveted on the side before haha..all my P-mags and any I've ever seen for sale have their rivets on the spine.
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
They still need to cycle at least 1 round in the chamber if they want to carry it loaded. So what is the difference between this 2 incidents again?
Cycling 5 rounds through the rifle is not a 'full magazine'.
Mind your own business? You posted on an internet forum, I hate idiots who say that. If you want to mind your business first rule is don't post being stupid... You post pics of an illegal act and then admit to doing it? How smart can you be? If you want be a gun plummer take a course first, you will learn that when you NEED to diagnose with live ammo you do it somewhere where you know the safe trajectory and impact of an AD. The odds for an AD are much higher when working on a firearm thats ####-up no matter, how "safe" you are. Unless you have built a misfire pit in your living room there is no place in your house for this IMHO. The fact that you don't get that and you think you are above law, then indeed "you have no idea obviously how irresponsible you are with firearms".
Hitzy is bang on the Money about you, don't become a stat for the anti's, smarten the ####-up.
Gun owners are their own worst enemy. Some are always pointing out errors made by others. To harp on what someone is doing in their home is no my problem. When I have feeding issues on a firearm I work in my shop, I have tool, and not a thousand experts giving me advice. You can cycle the action safely just by removing the firing pin.
So almost sounds like a rough feed ramp, or mag issue.
I have been using norc yellow box through my colt and norc ar with Pmags riveted on the spine and on the side without issue
You probably won't resolve it until you trouble shoot with a different mag and diff ammo
I have been using norc yellow box through my colt and norc ar with Pmags riveted on the spine and on the side without issue
You probably won't resolve it until you trouble shoot with a different mag and diff ammo
If you had some snap caps you could trouble shoot the Norc ammo safely. You want to cycle live ammo through your rifle in your home, all the power to you. I bet a great number of those who have had AD's shared you opinions. In my PAL course it was stressed many times "never trust a safety". The only issue I ever had with Norc ammo was very similar to this and it was a brand new Pmag. Hope you get it figured out.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
I only shoot 55gr Norinco through my mostly Colt M16A1 clone.
It works flawlessly and is as accurate as any other bulk .223 out there.
It works flawlessly and is as accurate as any other bulk .223 out there.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
Yeah. There's the same amount of pressure with the base plate off. I'm pretty sure you're correct. I can't move the springs and followers at all with the base plate off.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Hitzy's right, I'd love to say, your problem, but we're being judged as a group. Step back a bit and think what he's saying. Depending on where you live, if you have an accidental discharge in your house with an AR your screwed...nevermind you didn't put anything at risk but your laminate floor. Someone wants to gently smack you when your really showing some questionable judgement just nod and smile if you feel your right to the point your willing to get in a pissing match over it. Never had/seen an incident? If not you haven't been shooting enough, and you don't need to use the trigger to discharge a rifle, high primers, slam fires, improperly adjusted trigger, and sticky floating firing pins can make an unintended boom. How do you suppose it would play out if young Jenny got shot because the gun owning savage next door was trying to sort out whether he had an ammo or mag problem. I'm not saying it's likely, but the risk isn't zero.
Norinco Ammo...my last experience with it was split necks and a couple of projectiles pushed further down the neck. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate it's a combination of brittle brass and a poor crimp along with the feed problems.
Remember to discard those rounds that the bullet is pushed pack in the neck even a little. I'd assume Norinco ammo isn't really consistent with the charge weight so even seated a wee bit deep could cause some serious pressures.
Norinco Ammo...my last experience with it was split necks and a couple of projectiles pushed further down the neck. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate it's a combination of brittle brass and a poor crimp along with the feed problems.
Remember to discard those rounds that the bullet is pushed pack in the neck even a little. I'd assume Norinco ammo isn't really consistent with the charge weight so even seated a wee bit deep could cause some serious pressures.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
I apologize if I came off a bit arrogant, I just don't appreciate off topic posts when I'm trying to diagnose an issue (which is why the thread was created). The testing was done in a secure location with no possibility of anyone being injured in case of accidental discharge and to assume anything else (considering the amount of background you can actually make out in the pictures) is in my opinion trolling and not necessary. The only advice I may take is the removal of the firing pin next time... Unfortunately my range is 700 kms from home and when im at the range i'd rather not waste someone's bench time trying to take pictures of my rifle and trying to diagnose issues with the weapon.
Pictures removed to stop the further unnecessary commenting of new comers...
the_klenzer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
I've had Norc issues of several different types, a familiar one being the same issue with PCV beo mags. I switched to Remington ammo and no further issues with the mags. The issue was confirmed by a few other cgners if you search.
richmyster
CGN frequent flyer
I don't think it's an ammo issue at this point to be honest. Pretty sure it'll end up being mag related.
Odd that it worked fine for the first batch of ammo and issues with the next. Is this the white box, yellow box or paper wrapped ammo?
I'd try buying some other magazine to verify as others pointed out.
A few things you can do in the meantime:
- Grab one of the rounds, can you easily push the bullet into the case by pressing it into a firm object?
- If you reload, pull a few of the bullets and measure the diameter using a caliper. Are they 0.224" or undersized?
- Remove the magazine catch from the rifle. Inspect it that to ensure it does not have any burrs on the catch that could be restricting the magazine from seating properly.
- Check the feed ramps like in the example below:
Or that they are not misaligned or have a bad barrel extension like below:
Other possible causes could be that the barrel extension's feed ramps are too narrow or too steeply angled or possibly has burrs/tool markings.
Hopefully it's just a mag issue because that would be the easiest solution.
I'd try buying some other magazine to verify as others pointed out.
A few things you can do in the meantime:
- Grab one of the rounds, can you easily push the bullet into the case by pressing it into a firm object?
- If you reload, pull a few of the bullets and measure the diameter using a caliper. Are they 0.224" or undersized?
- Remove the magazine catch from the rifle. Inspect it that to ensure it does not have any burrs on the catch that could be restricting the magazine from seating properly.
- Check the feed ramps like in the example below:
Or that they are not misaligned or have a bad barrel extension like below:
Other possible causes could be that the barrel extension's feed ramps are too narrow or too steeply angled or possibly has burrs/tool markings.
Hopefully it's just a mag issue because that would be the easiest solution.
