Norinco commander accuracy

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Brentn

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I should start that I am not skilled in the art of marksmanship, but I do know what I'm doing.

Practice makes perfect, unfortunatley I haven't had enough at all, I just started shooting a year ago, so lets keep that in mind.

My first pistol was a norinco 1911A1C with the 4.25" barrel, I couldn't hit anything with it initially and it was due to poor grip and poor technique.

I learned how to shoot up until this point with my glock, and I must say that it helped me improve my accuracy beyond worlds.
I keep my grip high, tight and firm. My shooting hand is fully extended and my support hand is firmly gripped around my other hand. When I aim I keep the front sight in focus, rear sight and target are out of focus, and with this technique I can hit very nice groups at 20 yards with the glock. The first time I did this (took about 500-800 rounds before i started to get the hang of it) my eyes lit up and my girlfriend was telling me that I'm finally getting the hang of it.
So just recently I went back to the 1911, and it already had about 1000 rounds down range with poor accuracy. Using what I have learned from the glock and what I had learned at another forum, I was ready again. First thing I did before I went however was I bought some nice kimber grips, they are WORLDS better than the rubber ones that come with the norinco.
They allowed me to have a very tight grip on the pistol.

So I bought a 250 round pack and started at 5 yards. 3" groups :(
I brought the target back to about 8 yards and the groups were to the right of my POA and larger...
They were way better than before, but I'm starting to think that the accuracy on this thing stinks.
I will admit that with the glock sights, it was very easy to keep the front post in focus, but with the norinco and the stock sights this is very difficult..

What do you guys think,

The sights are the problem?
The gun is the problem?
I'm the problem?

I LOVE the 1911, its just awesome in simplicity and function and does a wonderfull job. I can strip it completley with no tools, and a detail strip is possible in the field unlike some other pistols. What I am trying to get at is that I don't want to give this pistol up, and I'm not talking about the 1911 I'm talking about the norinco commander.

Did any of you guys get new sights for this pistol in which your accuracy improved greatly?

I really don't want to give up this gun, and I want to buy another norinco (full 5" version) but if this keeps up, I won't...
Maybe I should rent a couple at the range and see what they are like?

anyways, thanks for hearing me out and your advice is greatly appreciated.
 
There certainly are differences between how you shoot a Glock and a 1911, but they are subtle and should not be so dramatic. I would have a friend who regularly shoots 1911's try and see what accuracy he gets.

Where is the pad of your finger on the trigger? When you say you are pulling right it almost sounds like you are too far into the trigger guard.

By all means, change out the sights for something more appealing to you. That is the beauty of a 1911!

FYI, I have a Norc Commander and find it extermely accurate and fun to shoot. Love my 1911's now more than my Glock, which I started with.

Good luck.
 
There certainly can be mechanical issues with an inexpensive 1911, too. They are not all created equal.

With the gun unloaded and the slide closed, check the bushing to barrel and bushing to slide fit by sticking your finger in the muzzle of the barrel and wiggling it around forcefully. There should be no visible movement. If the barrel is able to move in the bushing or the bushing moves in the slide, the gun will not group well.

Then push down forcefully on the top of the chamber, where the barrel is exposed through the ejection port. You are looking for "springing" -- being able to move the barrel up and down. It shouldn't. If it does, accuracy will be affected.

Those are a couple of mechanical checks. The tightness of the fit of the slide to the frame is much less important than many people think, although it can affect accuracy as well.

Another mechanical aspect is the trigger, of course. It's hard to shoot well with a poor trigger because you'll tend to anticipate the shot rather than getting a surprise break.
 
first things first If you have that short trigger in there, the one the Norinco came with, get rid of it and put a long trigger in it. the short might be good if you have little short fingers but I dout it. Second when to pull the trigger, put just the tip of your finger on the trigger and pull stright back, with out jerking the gun, try this buy praticing in your room against a traget and dry firing it. I personally find I shoot the 1911 better one handed then I do 2 handed but thats me. That Commander you have is no bullseye gun by you should be able to put it on the paper with in 20 Yards.

I think you need to learn some shooting skiils first, Don't give up on the 1911 just find what works for you, but get rid of that trigger!!!!. I had a short trigger on mine and I could not hit ####, but with the long one everthing changed.
 
Some good advice here above already...

You'll probably find in time you will learn to shoot the 1911 quite well.

I picked up one of the new series Norc commanders last summer from a local dealer. Has a decent trigger pull right outta the box. I detail stripped it down to give it a good cleaning and then reassembled it with an aluminum adjustable trigger. The only other thing I replaced is the grips with a set of double-diamond checkered hardwood ones & new hex grip screws. Other than that she's all stock. Even with the nubby sites I can get good practical accuracy from 10 yards & in. I've been shooting 1911's going on 30 years. I am a leftie and shoot from a modified Weaver stance. In time you will find you can learn to shoot the 1911 series pistols quite well. No, it doesn't take 30 years..lol...;)

I've only shot factory out of mine so far. It really likes the Fiocchi 230 gr JHP's. Can't wait to see what it does with my pet load of 5.2 gr of Red Dot over a 200 gr semi-wad cutter.
 
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the other point is- how accurate are your loads-?-i don't shoot factory for that very reason- i can cut clovers all day long with my handloads, but open right up with factory-
 
Go to the range, find somebody who shoots decent groups with pistols, and get him/her to try your Commander.

If another person can shoot small groups, then try to improve your skills.

If all other people shoot terrible grouping, then take it to somebody who knows 1911s, and find out what the problem is.

A good gunsmith will tell you what's wrong with this gun within one minute......
 
I appreciate all the friendly advice here. I will try putting my finger tip on the trigger next time. I knew this was important but I don't practice it often, now I know why and I think that can explain why shots were going to the right.
In the meantime I'm going to practice dry firing and make sure that there is no flinching, easy enough as that is in your room with no rounds. Its a different story when you have a snap cap and real rounds loaded every other time on the range, thats probably the best way.

I'm also going to try it at the rifle bay, with very slow concentrated trigger pulls using a rest and see what happens.

The ammunition that I was using is the same stuff I always use for this gun, remington UMC 45acp. I find that its about as close to what the gun was designed for back almost 100 years ago, and its inexpensive enough to buy a decent quantity without breaking the bank. Its always available as well it seems in my area.

btw, I did my own trigger job, spring was filed down slightly on the side for the sear. The hooks on the hammer were also filed down EVER SO SLIGHTLY in which I was granted less creep and a more crisp break when the trigger was pulled. The sear face was polished to help, and so where the sides of the trigger itself and the rear that makes contact with the disconnector. Disconnector face was also polished, again to smooth things out.

It was an amatuerish job at the time, but it helped tremendosly, if I could do it again I'd probably just do the polishing and leave the rest to a credible gun smith. I'd rather have an experts name on my trigger pull than my own next time :D A learning experience non-the-less.

Point being, maybe the pull isn't light enough, and i"m not saying that i'm going in there to improve things a second time, cause its as good as its going to get before I ruin the hammer or spring and/or make it too light and unsafe.

I will also try those tests on the hood and the bushing and post back what I find.

Thank you!
 
Alright, there is about half a mm of play in the barrel hood and no play near the bushing. The only thing that really moves is the whole slide slightly when i try and move the barrel. It just 'rattles' slightly which is pretty normal for a norc.
This is with the hammer cocked btw, or does it really matter?
With the hammer down there is no movement on the hood at all, not even a fraction of a mm.

Huh.. looks like its me.

once again thanks for your time.
 
I've said before that 9mm is a pistol calibre and 45 is more of a religious thing, you have to go (to the range) regularly to get anything out of it. The cool thing about 45 is that the bullet weighs TWICE as much as most 9mm, and that comes with a cost - lift and torque. If you bear down with a Glock, you can almost eliminate the muzzle flip and the torque is zero. Shooting a 45 is a different thing it, takes a bit of time (and ammo) to get used to. The 9mm is a good thing to have though, you'll find that shooting a 45 for a while really improves your shooting with a 9. Oh yes, and the age old mantra for the 1911 has been "new sights, trigger job, throat and polish". My stock Norc Commander trigger breaks at 6 pounds clean(ish) - my Armco Norc Commander breaks at 3 1/2 pounds and very clean. It's much easier to hit with a lighter trigger, also I can barely see the stock sights - much harder to hit with. If you have a decent pistolsmith in your area, these 2 things are worthwhile things to do to your pistol. Anything more than these 2 things is probably not necessary.
 
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Ok I bit more serious reply then I will buy yours for 200$ Most of the respondants are telling you to change the sights, trigger, etc none of these enhance accuracy if it your shooting ability with a 45 is lacking. My best advice is to get involved with your local ipsc or bullseye competition crowd. Ask them who is a decent shot and ask him or her if he would mind shooting a group for you. If the gun still shoots like it does when you are behind it then its the gun and no bomar sight, trigger job, or whatever except for perhaps a complete rebuild from a very competent gunsmith will improve it.

Fit and finish of the norinco is lacking, however they are forged from very decent steel with decent barrels. They are one of the better values in the norinco line.

Offer still stands though 200$ bucks shipped for your POS NORINCO 1911 Compact.
 
I am thinking about purchasing a Norinco commander and wondered about the sights. I havent seen a good pic of the sights. Are they easily replaceable? are they permanently affixed. Any info would be appreciated
thanks
 
steyrm9a1 said:
I am thinking about purchasing a Norinco commander and wondered about the sights. I havent seen a good pic of the sights. Are they easily replaceable? are they permanently affixed. Any info would be appreciated
thanks
Click to expand...

get one from gunnar at armco machining, he will work all the kinks out of it, and it will be deadly accurate after that.
 
stock 1911-c sights

n595277104_600302_6400.jpg


As to how expensive to change. You could get one that would fit in the existing dovetail and get a gunsmith to stake a front sight on for probably 100or so with the shipping. For a bomar and dovetail front sight with shipping you are looking at 300 check ARMC0 website for pricing.

It may be cheaper to buy a more expensive base pistol like the STI Spartan then upgrade a norinco.
(Please note I said more expensive not better) some folks take this stuff personal. Do not upset the gunnutz.
Do not upset the gunnutz.
 
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