Norinco JW15 bolt/ bolt channel /sear tuning

Arcosdad

Arcosdad

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Comox Valley,Vancouver Island.
Thought I'd start a new thread since many have been picking these up with the Tenda. I got one of each of the shorties and the 22". Here's a few pictures of what I've been seeing:

Picture "245" of the top of the sear channel on the bolt underside: I just used a green marker to lay down some colour. Cycled the bolt 20 times...note the drag evidence on the left where the sear is making contact. This is what seems to cause the sticky bolt rear pull. Touch the base of the trigger to feel the "judder" as you cycle the bolt.

Picture "202" of the sidewall of the sear channel: Note the weird block of protuding rough machining marked in green..zoom in and you'll see it looks like an embedded piece of file! This will polish out easily. Could likely just be left also.

Last picture of the sear itself: there's no sign of misalignment where the left side is riding high.. but it doesn't take much. Solution is to try to get the trigger adjustment screw to move ( without stripping the headšŸ˜«) to drop the sear a touch or failing that, a bit more polishing of the channel and maybe a touch off the sear.

Anyway, please share your experiences/ comments. BTW, both bolts are moving MUCH smoother just with 20 minutes work each.
 

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Arcosdad - Good work on the JW15, I'm sure you'll be able to greatly improve the beast.

The 2 recent ones I had were different for the sear adjustment screw. One was easily adjustable from the start. The other took some heat and penetrating oil to free it up, but then no problem. Once you do manage to loosen it, screwing it in clockwise decreases sear engagement (I'm sure you know this). You can get it to a very nice break, but a bit too much and the bolt comes out when you cycle it. I tried a lighter spring too but don't recommend it. The sticky part is still between the sear and cocking piece so a lighter trigger spring isn't really helpful.

I wonder if the makers of these fine sproting rifles have any idea how much time we put into them? Honestly they are pretty sturdy and simple and do shoot pretty well.
 
Arcosdad said:
Thought I'd start a new thread since many have been picking these up with the Tenda. I got one of each of the shorties and the 22". Here's a few pictures of what I've been seeing:

Picture "245" of the top of the sear channel on the bolt underside: I just used a green marker to lay down some colour. Cycled the bolt 20 times...note the drag evidence on the left where the sear is making contact. This is what seems to cause the sticky bolt rear pull. Touch the base of the trigger to feel the "judder" as you cycle the bolt.

Picture "202" of the sidewall of the sear channel: Note the weird block of protuding rough machining marked in green..zoom in and you'll see it looks like an embedded piece of file! This will polish out easily. Could likely just be left also.

Last picture of the sear itself: there's no sign of misalignment where the left side is riding high.. but it doesn't take much. Solution is to try to get the trigger adjustment screw to move ( without stripping the headšŸ˜«) to drop the sear a touch or failing that, a bit more polishing of the channel and maybe a touch off the sear.

Anyway, please share your experiences/ comments. BTW, both bolts are moving MUCH smoother just with 20 minutes work each.
Click to expand...
Thanks for starting this thread. I just posted in the otherone regarding yesterday's antics; I will copy that here for continuity:
Update....

Yesterday, I took a deeper dive into the trigger. I needed to further reduce trigger force, and take up.

First thing I found was that the trigger was rubbing on one side of the little sub-plate that sits under the trigger guard. I opened that up a few thousands with a small, straight cut, needle file. Suddenly, the "gritty" creep was gone!

I also discovered that the very stiff trigger return spring is the same OD as a YoDave 455 trigger spring. I put in a medium light one I had kicking around; It helped a bit, but the difference on force required was less than antcipated.

My nemisis, until yesterday, was the trigger adjustment screw. I was unable to get it freed-up even with heating it with a BBQ lighter, and later, the gas kitchen stove. Chinese lock-tite, may be superior to our western stuff. LOL. I heated the hell out of it again, and grabbed the end of the screw with a small vise-grip and worked it back and forth and lots of oil. I had to do that all the way out the bottom until it freed up enough to turn it with a jewler's screw driver. Once out, it screwed back in from the bottom quite easily. I set it up so that there is now no preceptable creep, but also when cocked, I can forcefully bump the stock on the floor without having the firing pin let go.

It also takes a bit more force to lift the bolt than is should; I have not had a chance to fix it yet, but I did take the bolt apart, and found the firing pin to be disgracefully rough. There is a lot of friction when moving the internals back and forth by hand with no spring. I estimate 1-2 hours. It is so rough, I almost regret looking at it.

Bedding and free-floating has been moved to the bottom of the priority list for the time being.

BTW, the rear dove-tail is not symetrical, and I have tried two different dovetail adaptors hoping to use a qd scope so I can easily go from scope to irons, neither worked for me. Dovetail is either too wide or two narrow.

Any ideas on this would be welcome.
Click to expand...
 
Lever30 said:
Arcosdad - Good work on the JW15, I'm sure you'll be able to greatly improve the beast.

The 2 recent ones I had were different for the sear adjustment screw. One was easily adjustable from the start. The other took some heat and penetrating oil to free it up, but then no problem. Once you do manage to loosen it, screwing it in clockwise decreases sear engagement (I'm sure you know this). You can get it to a very nice break, but a bit too much and the bolt comes out when you cycle it. I tried a lighter spring too but don't recommend it. The sticky part is still between the sear and cocking piece so a lighter trigger spring isn't really helpful.

I wonder if the makers of these fine sproting rifles have any idea how much time we put into them? Honestly they are pretty sturdy and simple and do shoot pretty well.
Click to expand...
I actually found that a lighter trigger spring helped. See above post; the YoDave spring was considerably lighter, and the right diameter, but made a bit less of an improvement than I hoped.
 
I bought one of these years ago, the short one. Sat in the safe unfired fo a number of years. When i finally took it out to try it, its works and shoots but if you work the bolt to fast and hard it will come completely out of the gun. I still use it as is but would love to have it fixed. Any suggestions?
 
mattgoulding said:
I bought one of these years ago, the short one. Sat in the safe unfired fo a number of years. When i finally took it out to try it, its works and shoots but if you work the bolt to fast and hard it will come completely out of the gun. I still use it as is but would love to have it fixed. Any suggestions?
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Possibly, increasing the sear engagement via backing out the trigger adjustment secrew one half to one turn. That would be where I would start. Also make sure there is no binding with any of the trigger components or even the trigger itself rubbing.
 
Meroh said:
Possibly, increasing the sear engagement via backing out the trigger adjustment secrew one half to one turn. That would be where I would start. Also make sure there is no binding with any of the trigger components or even the trigger itself rubbing.
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Already tried that didnā€™t work. I was thinking I might have to build up the material on top of sear to make more engagement. I have had this gun apart so many times looking at this and trying to make it work.
 
mattgoulding said:
Already tried that didnā€™t work. I was thinking I might have to build up the material on top of sear to make more engagement. I have had this gun apart so many times looking at this and trying to make it work.
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Looking at my sear picture above, does your sear appear much lower? Is your trigger pull super light or does it have little or no take up? These often have a two stage feel.
 
Arcosdad said:
Looking at my sear picture above, does your sear appear much lower? Is your trigger pull super light or does it have little or no take up? These often have a two stage feel.
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I am going to have to take another look tonight or tomorrow, itā€™s been a long time since I looked at the rifle.
 
Arcosdad said:
Looking at my sear picture above, does your sear appear much lower? Is your trigger pull super light or does it have little or no take up? These often have a two stage feel.
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So I checked out my rifle again sear looks the same height as yours and my trigger has no take up and feels not to bad for how cheap the rifle is but from what I can tell from your photos the bottom of your bolt where it would catch on the sear when you pull the bolt back, mine looks concaved almost and not as sticking up as proud and straight as yours looks. now I donā€™t think my problem is with the sear like I thought I think itā€™s with the bottom of the bolt
 
mattgoulding said:
So I checked out my rifle again sear looks the same height as yours and my trigger has no take up and feels not to bad for how cheap the rifle is but from what I can tell from your photos the bottom of your bolt where it would catch on the sear when you pull the bolt back, mine looks concaved almost and not as sticking up as proud and straight as yours looks. now I donā€™t think my problem is with the sear like I thought I think itā€™s with the bottom of the bolt
Click to expand...
Can you post a picture of your bolt?
 
Here is the sear and how far I have the screw backed off, itā€™s not even touching any more
 

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Matt - It looks like you need to screw the trigger adjustment screw in clockwise rather than backing it out. Clockwise (ie with the screw sticking out more toward the receiver) pulls the sear down so the engagement with the cocking piece is less. It is possible to adjust it to the point that the sear doesn't engage the cocking piece at all, which is not what you want of course. There should be an intermediate point where you get good sear engagement but a lighter trigger pull. Maybe try that?
 
Looking at the sear channel in the pictures it looks pretty rough and maybe narrowed by a burr ( could just be the light). But what if the sear is not seating in the channel and is just being forced down with a bit of engagement. It's not enough to stop the bolt from just running overtop of it as you draw it back? Just a thought. As for the concave piece, I've been tied up with other stuff but will pull the bolts tomorrow and check.
 
riversrest said:
I remember a time when trigger assemblies had a sear sping. Hard to tell without having all pins out...
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It has one, at the very front. It is very stiff. I shortened mine a couple coils and it did lighten it a bit; I then replaced it with a much ligher one that was left over from a YoDave kit (exactly the right size BTW), it did not help as much as I had hoped. but it helped a little more.
 
Lever30 said:
Matt - It looks like you need to screw the trigger adjustment screw in clockwise rather than backing it out. Clockwise (ie with the screw sticking out more toward the receiver) pulls the sear down so the engagement with the cocking piece is less. It is possible to adjust it to the point that the sear doesn't engage the cocking piece at all, which is not what you want of course. There should be an intermediate point where you get good sear engagement but a lighter trigger pull. Maybe try that?
Click to expand...
Honest question. If the sear is lower how will that help with my problem of the bolt coming out as I cycle the rifle. Low sear = less engagement correct? Or am I missing something.
 
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