Norinco M-14 WARNING!!!

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camman133

camman133

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this goes out to whoever owns a norinco M-14 or will ever get one

I suggest looking at your bolt assembly and checking for a missing spring that holds back the firing pin because at the shooting range I realised that that can be a big problem. I loaded my mag with 5 rounds than placed it in the gun, than once i pulled the trigger i thought i was dead! instantly there was a huge explosion with a massive fireball which burnt off all my arm and face hair, and left me standing there in complete shock wondering "am i still alive?" when I put the gun down i realised how serious it was, the stock was in 4 peices, the bolt was distroyed and the mag was completly distroyed. when I looked at the ground i realized what had happened. After the first round went off, the bolt came back and loaded the next shell, but not all the way. It was struck by the firing pin before the round was properly placed and caused it to explode which was directed downwards and caused 2 other rounds to go off in the mag. luckly im okay and there were no injuries, just a slight loss of my hearing.
 
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To my knowledge, no M14 rifle has ever been made with a firing pin retractor spring. The M 14 is designed to fire military ammunition with hard primers, not commercial 308 with soft primers. What brand of ammunition and primers were you using? I'm guessing Federal. This ammunition has particularly soft primers and should not under any cicumstances be used in military surplus or reproduction military firearms.

Oh yes, and use reloads only if you thoroughly understand the dynamics of semi-automatic military style firearms AND use hard primers (CCI makes mil-spec primers). The same advice is good for any military semi, especially the SKS.
 
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that's a classic out of battery slam-fire. I don't think it's solely attributable to the firing pin retaining spring (heck, I know some semi-autos out there don't even incorporate such a spring into their design.)

Something as simply as a really dirty chamber could cause an out of battery discharge, tho from what I gather, primers that aren't seated deeply enough are the primary cause.
 
ian_in_vic said:
To my knowledge, no M14 rifle has ever been made with a firing pin retractor spring. The M 14 is designed to fire military ammunition with hard primers, not commercial 308 with soft primers. What brand of ammunition and primers were you using? I'm guessing Federal. This ammunition has particularly soft primers and should not under any cicumstances be used in military surplus or reproduction military firearms.
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they were reloads but not until after this happened did i know that military surplus should be used
 
I've never really bought in to the whole mil-spec primer thing. For ages and ages reloaders have been using regular primers for service rifle shoots in these things.

Just make sure that the case isn't getting stuck while feeding (neck sizing is usually a no-no), and that the primers are seated properly a little below flush. Also avoid any seating the bullets into the lands nonsense for this type of gun. You may need to look at small base dies to ensure smooth chambering if you have a tight-ish chamber
 
Federal primers and reloads without a really heavy crimp will go bang badly. Also the brass must be full length resized for each reload, you can't neck size for a semi. The loading cycle for these guns really slams the loaded round up the ramp and more or less jams it into the chamber, without a strong crimp the bullet sets back into the case.This reduces the case capacity and drives pressures through the roof. With the M14 if you're reloading use CCI milspec primers and a very strong crimp, also use projectiles similar to the military weight (147-168 for 7.62) and select a powder with a similar burn rate (same velocity) to military spec.
 
prosper said:
I've never really bought in to the whole mil-spec primer thing. For ages and ages reloaders have been using regular primers for service rifle shoots in these things.
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I agree, to some extent, but remember that competition shooters are pretty careful about cleaning their rifles (actions and bolts, not necessarily barrels ;)) - and I've personally not had a problem even with Federal but I'm a nut about cleaning firearms.Also, we don't know if the bolt was totally degreased before firing.
 
Glad to read you are ok...that must have got the heart pumping a little faster than usual! Given the number of different things that can cause this to happen, (and the degree to which I play with my rifles....ripping them down and then re-building them into something different), I've been terrified of this happening to me.

This is a great lesson for the rest of us...valuable enough that we should all collectively buck up and buy you a new rifle. What are the lessons?

1. Every single one of us should disassemble our bolts and check the headspace of our rifles. Anything shorter than 1.632 is TOO SHORT. Longer than 1.645 is theoretically too long, however I can't imagine a reason why long headspace would cause a ka-boom. I know that TRW bolts are all the rage. I also know that about 95% of the New-In-Wrap ones I've used when re-barreling an M305/14s with an american made barrel resulted in headspace of 1.630 (sometimes shorter!) In this situation with a chrome lined barrel you'll have to make adjustments via lapping bolt lugs or the bolt face. In a non-chrome lined barrel, a pull-through chamber finish reamer works lovely. Both are a pain in the a**.

2. Every single one of us needs to check for proper functioning of the receiver/bolt/firing pin geometry to ensure that the firing pin retraction bridge is in fact retracting the firing pin as the bolt rotates into battery. Do this both visually and by feel.

3. Frequently inspect the firing pin tang to check for chips or wear. If the receiver/bolt/pin geometry is good, but then sometime in the future the pin dimensions change because something "chips off" this important M14 safety feature has been comprimised.

4. After each trip to the range, that chamber gets the full brush-scrub-out treatment. Built up carbon, brass shavings, or who knows what else can get caught between the shoulder of the case and the shoulder of the chamber. This has the effect of "shortening" headspace and can prevent the bolt from rotating completely into battery. On a rifle with generous headspace (like most M305/14s out of the box), this is not so much an issue as it would be in a tightly headspaced gun. Regardless, get in there and scrub her spotless.

5. The firing pin channel in the bolt needs to be clean. If too much crud builds up in there it can prevent the firing pin from moving freely and possibly even seize it protruding through the boltface. I know that lots of folks are hesitant to tear down their bolts, but do it at least once (carefully) to clean out all that cosmoline. I have to confess that I use Hungry's solvent/compressed air cleaning methodolgy, but do it frequently and make sure nothing can bind that pin.

6. Receiver Bolt lugs on the receiver need to be kept clean.

7. Disconnecter function needs to be checked frequently. The test for this is to (after checking to see that the gun is unloaded) drop the hammer and keep the trigger fully depressed while you cycle the action. If the disconnector holds the hammer (with an audible "click" as the hammer is transfered from the disconnector to the sear, yet still holding the hammer back as you then let go of the trigger) you're good to go. If not, then there is either something wrong with your disconnector or the relationship between the receiver/trigger group/stock is wrong. I've seen many an M14s/305 that exhibits "hammer follow", and it is a condition that could potentially cause the big ka-boom.

8. Every round that gets loaded into an M305/14s magazine needs to be checked for a high primer. While this is a must when using handloaded ammunition, it's still a good idea when shooting milsurp ammo. On the re-loading side of things, I'm not so sold on the notion that CCI milspec primers are the only ones allowed; rather proper preparation of the primer pocket is essential. SEAT THOSE PRIMERS DEEP! To do this you'll need to ream them out with a primer pocket uniformer tool. This is a time consuming b*tch but given the potential negative consequences a good investment IMHO.

9. When re-loading, brass must be, at minimum, full-length-resized. I think going the extra mile by using small base dies is better.

Don't get me wrong....I love these guns and shoot mine weekly with high volumes of both surplus and reloaded ammunition. I'm thankful for this thread because familiarity breeds complacency and there are alot of things to check frequently and think about. It's important to remember that if we're not careful disaster CAN STRIKE. In this case the collective community was lucky as we got a fairly vivid reminder at relatively little cost: no one got hurt.

Good luck, and good shooting!

Brobee
ps: maybe now the price of a used M14S will drop in the equipment exchange? I'll be waiting to pounce!
 
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Excellent thread!

Brobee said:
3. Frequently inspect the firing pin tang to check for chips or wear. If the receiver/bolt/pin geometry is good, but then sometime in the future the pin dimensions change because something "chips off" this important M14 safety feature has been compromised.

Is this "tang" at the front or rear of the bolt?

ps: maybe now the price of a used M14S will drop in the equipment exchange? I'll be waiting to pounce!
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Good luck with that, prices on the Norinco and Poly Tech M14S imported into the US long ago are now $1000.00 at gun shows.
This price is for bone stock rifles, sellers charge much more for USGI domestication.
 
M14's DO NOT HAVE FIRING PIN SPRINGS. As prosper stated, this is a bad slam fire. But thanks for posting it and reminding us all about the dangers of soft primers in M14's (and Garands, and SKS's etc).
 
Is there any commercial ammunition available with "hard" primers?



That was my original plan: M305 + Federal .308

Apparently, that appears to be a bad idea.
 
it's a slamfire- as previously stated , the m14 has no firing pin spring- the only problem i've ever had was a head separation, and i'm sure that case had gone one too may times through the reloader- it was a winchester, i was shooting 180's and it separated at the shoulder, locking up the mech, splitting the stock, and parting the magazine tube- however, once we got it unlocked, put a new stock on it , and replaced the mag, it worked fine
 
There is a free service for Springfield Armory M1A owners on the company website. They will ship free reprints of articles and manuals. The articles tell how it is almost impossible for slam-fires to occur .... But based on what I get from a quick read of the chain of events, your rifle had an out-of-battery ignition. You are probably right that is was a sticky firing pin, which is different from a slam-fire.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post pictures. This is a occurence all of us need to learn from.
 
t-star said:
it's a slamfire- as previously stated , the m14 has no firing pin spring- the only problem i've ever had was a head separation, and i'm sure that case had gone one too may times through the reloader- it was a winchester, i was shooting 180's and it separated at the shoulder, locking up the mech, splitting the stock, and parting the magazine tube- however, once we got it unlocked, put a new stock on it , and replaced the mag, it worked fine
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Very interesting....when the second round chambered, were you able to fire the rifle and was this firing the cause of the damage to the magazine and stock? If so, then this is an excellent ancedote in support of the notion that excessive headspace can be bad and that case-head separation can be dangerous (as compared to just plain annoying and a pain in the a** to fix if you don't have the right tools).

H2O man: the firing pin tang is that hook on the back end of the firing pin. My recommendation is to buy a brand new firing pin soley to keep as a reference in comparison. Every time you strip down your rifle inspect the tang via comparison to the new one. If it looks chipped at all, the rifle is unsafe until the pin is replaced with a new one.

Brobee
 
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