Norinco M14s Scout Scope - what's the consensus?

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Doc M

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Hi All -

for those who have scout scopes on their M14s/M1A-style rifles, what're you using and what do you like/dislike about your particular choice? If you had it to do over again, what would you change/keep?

I have a UTG Tri-rail setup on my M14s and want to put a low- or variable-magnification scout scope on the rail in front of the action. Basically, I want to have optics but preserve the stripper-clip functionality of the firearm.

I'm not new to riflescopes, but I've never owned/used a Scout scope before - so I'm open to some suggestions from those of you who have, if you'd be so kind as to fill a newbie in! Inexpensive is fine, as long as it's not cheaply made - but I'm open to high-dollar scopes too, if you feel the cost is worth the final product.

Also, since seeing is believing, if anyone is in the Edmonton area and wants to either head out to the Sherwood Park Fish/Game Range (or take me as a guest - I'll pay guest fees/gas/ammo/case of your favorite suds - to the Spruce Grove Range) so I could actually get up close and personal with one of your scopes on whatever firearm wears it currently, I'd be much obliged! I don't really need to shoot through it, I'd just sort of like to peek through it for a few minutes and see how it 'agrees' with my eyes...

Cheers,
-M
 
cancer said:
Burris speed bead. Cheap and low to the rail.
Click to expand...

Interesting setup, and it looks like a good red dot.

However, I don't want to do a red dot - I want either a lower-magnification or variable power scout scope; with the effective range of the .308 cartridge I want to have some optical advantage on the rifle... not a ton, but some.

My AR15 has a red-dot on the rail with BUIS installed, and I love it. Nothing better in-close, for my money.

-M
 
Tried a Leupold Pistol Scope

4 X on low rings on the UTG rail. The scope held zero great and I was able to get a good cheek weld, I just couldn't get used to it and your field of view is a lot narrower. Good idea to check it out as it is a different set up that you might not like. I never tried an actual scout scope.
 
If I did a scout setup on an M14, I would either put an Aimpoint or a Leupold scout FX2.5 on it. I have a Leupold scout on my CZ858 and it's a sweet scope.
 
Leupold Scout Scope

My brother has a Leupold scout scope mounted on his M 14 using I think the VLtor stalk. I have shot it a couple of times and much perfer it to my M-14 in a USGI wood stalk with a Leupold SPR mounted on an ARMS rail. The scope is low to bore and makes for a fast pointing rifle as you can have both eyes open to aquire targets. It's great for close in CQB stuff but still lets you put lead on steel out to about 400m with regularity. However there is the cost of rigigng your gun which is beyond me at this time
 
Burris Fast Fire would be great I think.
Just a side question though...
Has anyone noticed any problem's using there UTG mounting screw on there Norinco reciever's?
 
Satain said:
Burris Fast Fire would be great I think.
Just a side question though...
Has anyone noticed any problem's using there UTG mounting screw on there Norinco reciever's?
Click to expand...

Mine went on without a problem.
Try chasing the threads before you install the screw.
Yay China!
The only thing I found was the rail appears to be slightly, I mean minutely turned a little clockwise in relation to the iron sights.
I tightened it up with pressure the opposite way, and it seemed better.
 
I have the Leupold Scout scope as well mounted on a shortie M-305 on an Ultimak rail. Used it last fall to take a beautiful 300 lb buck. I much prefer this scope setup to a larger traditional scope mounted higher (to clear the rear iron sight) for hunting in dense bush.

It's very fast to acquire a target and for my aging eyes (46), the optic is a blessing. I have also used an Eotech on the same rifle/rail for more fun shooting. Works very well, though the Eotech sits a bit high.

The package is of course heavy as compared to my buddies' lever 30-30's. They shake their head when I say it's just part of my Fall exercise regimen. :D
 
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I would love to see some pics, if anyone has mounted there M14 with a scout scope, a description of what equipment, and a price if anyone has the time. I have been thinking about doing the same to mine.
 
I like the ultimak scout mount better than the UTG for the simple reason that the ultimak sits lower which, when using an aimpoint, will allow you to co-witness with your iron sights through the aimpoint tube.

Regarding the scout scope, I've tried both the burris and the leupold (the only two commercially available intermediate eye relief scopes that I'm aware of) and greatly prefer the leupold scope over the burris. The leupold is what's pictured below, sitting in a set of leupold medium QRW rings. I sent it down to the Korth guys and had them install externally adjustable elevation turrets which are also visible in the picture.

m1a_psudo_scout_b.jpg


I'm 37 years old this year, and have to say that I'm starting to notice some degredation in my vision such that I appreciate a bit of magnification. This would be the key reason I like the scout setup on my favorite type of rifle (M1A) as all the other glass setups require the use of some sort of lame-o cheek piece for proper cheek weld that, IMHO, destroy both the ergonomics and asthetics of the rifle.

While I like the scout scope alot, there are a couple of things that bug me about it. The first is the ultra-fine duplex posts of the reticle. I like a fine crosshair in the center, however the outside posts are not much wider and easily get lost in low light or dense brush. You can get the heavy duplex installed, however then the center crosshair is too thick and obscures too much of the target. Leupold's German #4 has massive outside posts (which I love), but again the center cross hair is too thick. I'm working with the Korth guys right now to see if they can't come up with a german #4 that has a finer crosshair...as of now there is nothing available but we still have a couple of cards to play and I'm hopeful they can come up with something.

The second thing I don't like about the scout scope is that when mounted on the low ultimak rail with leupolds low QRW rings for optimum cheek weld, the front sight blurs a bit in the bottom of the reticle. This is mitigated somewhat by using slightly higher rings, however you start trading off one thing (proper cheek weld) for optical clairity. I run my rig with medium height rings but it bugs me not to be able to squeeze down on the buttstock of my rifle and I lothe the idea and execution of a cheek piece.

The third thing is that in order to use the irons you have to take the scope off. Not that big of a deal with QRW rings, but there is no co-witnessing when using magnified optics.

Lastly, the balance point of the rifle is just slightly forward of the magazine well....just a little too far forward for what I would describe as optimum. The scope weights not much more than an aimpoint, but with the addition of the leupold steel rings and because of it's longer length it shifts the CG forward noticably compared to the aimpoint.

So...enter the aimpoint:

m1a_scout_aimpoint.jpg


Most of my M1As are rigged up this way....an aimpoint mounted in the factory aimpoint low 30mm ring set up on the ultimak. This combination will allow you to see your iron sights through the aimpoint tube, with the red dot sitting just on top of your front post. Pretty cool! The only thing I don't like about this setup that there is no magnification, which helps me hit at ranges past about 300 yards.

m1a_cowitness_c.jpg


m1a_cowitness_d.jpg


I've hunted extensively with both rigs; with my scout scope I'm comfortable cleanly killing deer sized game all the way out to where I practice (which is 500 yards) whereas with the aimpoint I am not comfortable much past my point blank range trajectory (point blank trajectory range of 250 yards, comfort level out to about 300 yards). Given the vast majority of the game I shoot is within 200 yards, my preference these days seems to be the aimpoint however there have been a couple circumstances where I passed up shots because I had the aimpoint when they would have been easy with the scout scope.

*sigh*....to have to compromise! All in all....either rig run quite well and I have difficulty deciding which one is my favorite.

Good luck,

Brobee
 
Thanks to everyone for your input - I was leaning towards a Leupold scout, since I want a little more than a red-dot in terms of overall precision and I don't typically have trouble seeing the duplex type reticles... Like I say, I like my red dot on my AR but for the longer-reaching 308 I wanted to put a little magnification - just a hair - on the rail. That Aimpoint setup IS badass, however... is it only a red dot reticle, non-variable? Or is it a 4-reticle (or similar) type of sight?

If anyone else has good suggestions, keep 'em coming! :)

-M
 
BROBEE,
great post on optimising the M14 for a scout sight set up.

I agree with you that the ULTIMAK M14 rail is better quality, and a better design than the UTG. The UTG rails themselves are well made, but the attaching hardware is SOFT [AIRSOFT quality screws that strip the allen heads sockets out!!]

UTG rail owners need to know is that the two stamped steel barrel clamps are NOT interchangable, and if you check carefully, you will probably find that they are also tapered, to match the taper of the M14 barrel. With many of these stamped steel clamps, there are distinct front and back, and high and low variations . So, for maximum retention, inspect the clamps carefully before slapping them on, and fit the clamps to match the barrel taper.

I posted previously about how to properly mount a UTG rail, but no matter how carefully you mount a UTG, it is NOT designed to support the back of the rail consistently and reliably. The UTG rail is NOT designed for big, heavy optics, and hard use. There are other railed hand guards out there that are better,
but on my personal M14 shorty, I have a UTG [ hey, I'm a cheap bastard!! and the UTG is good enough for what I want it for ... at least until I start making my own proprietary M14 railed hand guard ].

I am also a big fan of the Leupold QRW rings, which clamp securely and remove and replace with good repeatable accuracy.

Here is a pic of my personal shorty M14 with the UTG and a cheap red dot.
I am planning on replacing the red dot soon, with a similar model that has a "T" reticle, and 2X magnification. I expect the "T" reticle will be better for my old lazered/melted eyeballs, and that 2X magnification will provide me with the perfect compromise between FAST and ACCURATE. We'll see about that theory when the red dot gets here.

Notice that this 14 has a FOLDING STOCK, that provides a much higher cheek weld, more suitable for optics. Also, that the front sight is a chopped down NORC sight base, with a YHM bored out COMPENSATOR. Like Sharkson says, the GRFS are not the best design for brush use, or for repeatable accuracy.
Shorties007.jpg


[;{)
LAZ1
 
Sharkson! That top rifle, in the coyote tan - what's that scope? It's a Leupold, right? But what's the model number... that is EXACTLY what I'm going for. Also, what is that sling and where can I get one - you've got the exact setup I want, except mine's not a shorty. I might get a second one though, and have it chopped...

Do you like the setup?

-M
 
And Lazerus... nice rigs, all three! Good suggestions for the UTG mounting; I found the same thing on mine - the two stampings aren't interchangeable... good tip for anyone having trouble getting the piece together.

-M
 
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