Norinco M305/M14 Iron Sight Problems

Travis Bickle

Travis Bickle

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I recently picked up a Norinco M14 a couple months back. I read all about the rifle. I also downloaded the "bible" on how to battle sight the irons etc.
I got the front blade centered relatively easy firing on a piece of vertical gun tape at about 15-20 meters.
When I attempted to zero the elevation at 100 meters, it simply wouldn't even hit paper until I had turned the knob almost to the 350-ish area. By the time I was in the black I was around 400 on the dial!? :confused:
My shots are well grouped now, but when I play with the knob to readjust for further or closer shooting, it will sometimes loosen the screw holding the knob until it releases from the sights or not even raise/lower the aperture at all :(
This makes me a sad panda. My question is how common is this in Norinco rifles? I have heard stories that the sights on them are hit or miss. Looks like I may have missed lol. What is a good affordable alternative to change my irons so they are actually functional?
 
Really simple fix, a USGI M14 (more expensive and more rare to come by) or a simple set of M1 Garand knobs (both elev and windage) found on ebay!

That's what I'm recommending and I did, too. I'm really happy with my M1 Garand sight upgrade on my existing Norc M14 rear sight base, spring cover and slightly off centered aperture. All of this works reliably now.

Feel free to count the number of kliks (from your range established 100m zero) to the BOTTOM of the elevation knob (until that rear aperture bottoms out), then write this number of kliks down in your sniper log book or notebook or Blackberry app.

Then you can take an 8" fine file and start filing down your front sight until you are about 10 kliks from absolute bottom at 100m. My sticky describing this operation is here:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38722&page=2

If you screw up and file down to far, no worries. I have spare USGI front sights in my toolbox! BTDT! :D

Hope this helps, Cheers mates!

Barney
 
Travis Bickle said:
I recently picked up a Norinco M14 a couple months back. I read all about the rifle. I also downloaded the "bible" on how to battle sight the irons etc.
I got the front blade centered relatively easy firing on a piece of vertical gun tape at about 15-20 meters.
When I attempted to zero the elevation at 100 meters, it simply wouldn't even hit paper until I had turned the knob almost to the 350-ish area. By the time I was in the black I was around 400 on the dial!? :confused:
My shots are well grouped now, but when I play with the knob to readjust for further or closer shooting, it will sometimes loosen the screw holding the knob until it releases from the sights or not even raise/lower the aperture at all :(
This makes me a sad panda. My question is how common is this in Norinco rifles? I have heard stories that the sights on them are hit or miss. Looks like I may have missed lol. What is a good affordable alternative to change my irons so they are actually functional?
Click to expand...
I had same problem as you so i bought a Beretta Garand sight,nos on ebay. I didnt have the time yet to shoot my new M305,but the mecanic seem's very good. I must add that i'm not gonna put money on the rifle except for ammo ofc but if the rifle doesn't work good, i wont keep it. I know that most fellows like to tune their rifle but if a rifle doesn't work right out the box, its not good for me.... All that said, most owner seem's to be very happy with the Norinco and seems good to go except for rear sight problem.
Jocelyn
 
svt1940 said:
I had same problem as you so i bought a Beretta Garand sight,nos on ebay. I didnt have the time yet to shoot my new M305,but the mecanic seem's very good. I must add that i'm not gonna put money on the rifle except for ammo ofc but if the rifle doesn't work good, i wont keep it. I know that most fellows like to tune their rifle but if a rifle doesn't work right out the box, its not good for me.... All that said, most owner seem's to be very happy with the Norinco and seems good to go except for rear sight problem.
Jocelyn
Click to expand...

Agreed, I won't spend any money trying to make my $300 rifle look like a $2000 rifle by adding pointless junk to it. The rifle itself is great. It shoots great, doesn't have any feed or cycling issues and is in perfect condition.
The only problem is the rear sight does not work properly :(
What is the average price for an M1 garand rear sight assembly? I think I will invest in this one piece to make my M14 functional.
Is e-bay really the best place to pick one up?
Thanks for the replies guys.
 
Travis Bickle said:
I recently picked up a Norinco M14 a couple months back. I read all about the rifle. I also downloaded the "bible" on how to battle sight the irons etc.
I got the front blade centered relatively easy firing on a piece of vertical gun tape at about 15-20 meters.
When I attempted to zero the elevation at 100 meters, it simply wouldn't even hit paper until I had turned the knob almost to the 350-ish area. By the time I was in the black I was around 400 on the dial!? :confused:
My shots are well grouped now, but when I play with the knob to readjust for further or closer shooting, it will sometimes loosen the screw holding the knob until it releases from the sights or not even raise/lower the aperture at all :(
This makes me a sad panda. My question is how common is this in Norinco rifles? I have heard stories that the sights on them are hit or miss. Looks like I may have missed lol. What is a good affordable alternative to change my irons so they are actually functional?
Click to expand...

I have no problems with my Norc's iron sights, it is dead on. I've tested that. Have not adjusted it at all. It's my eyes that is the problem, so don't use the iron sights.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Agreed, I won't spend any money trying to make my $300 rifle look like a $2000 rifle by adding pointless junk to it. The rifle itself is great. It shoots great, doesn't have any feed or cycling issues and is in perfect condition.
The only problem is the rear sight does not work properly :(
What is the average price for an M1 garand rear sight assembly? I think I will invest in this one piece to make my M14 functional.
Is e-bay really the best place to pick one up?
Thanks for the replies guys.
Click to expand...
Ebay is great to find garand sight. You can find italian garand sight beretta or breda marked for $60-$70 new. U.S sight are on ebay as well but all sellers i check dont ship to canada and somes ask fortune for original sights. Ofc you can just replace the pinion and knobs assembly.
Jocelyn
 
Travis Bickle said:
I recently picked up a Norinco M14 a couple months back. I read all about the rifle. I also downloaded the "bible" on how to battle sight the irons etc.
I got the front blade centered relatively easy firing on a piece of vertical gun tape at about 15-20 meters.
When I attempted to zero the elevation at 100 meters, it simply wouldn't even hit paper until I had turned the knob almost to the 350-ish area. By the time I was in the black I was around 400 on the dial!? :confused:
My shots are well grouped now, but when I play with the knob to readjust for further or closer shooting, it will sometimes loosen the screw holding the knob until it releases from the sights or not even raise/lower the aperture at all :(
This makes me a sad panda. My question is how common is this in Norinco rifles? I have heard stories that the sights on them are hit or miss. Looks like I may have missed lol. What is a good affordable alternative to change my irons so they are actually functional?
Click to expand...


What "Bible" are you talking about and where did you download it from?
 
anonovic.aleksandar said:
What "Bible" are you talking about and where did you download it from?
Click to expand...

It was a two page document on exactley how to zero iron sights for the M1 garand/M14/M1A.
I actually got the link to the site that had the document on this site (gunnutz). I can't remember the name of it now but there was a whole whack of pdf manuals for free.
Apparently it's supposd to be the best tutorial on how to zero the irons for any of these rifles. It was very informative.
 
I copied this off of here awhile ago...from Hungry and another website

How to kick ass with M14 irons sights
________________________________________
I thought I would post this because I don't see very many M14's around that aren't scoped. It and the M1 have the greatest irons ever put on a rifle!!
This is the base formula for these standard issue rifle sights (M14/Garand).
1 click changes the impact of the bullet approx 1" @ 100m/y
M14 sight is graduated in meters M1 sight in yards.

Elevation adjustment range: 0-72 clicks
Windage adjustment range: 16 clicks L or R of center index.

With your rear sight windage index lined up in the center, adjust your front sight side to side until you are shooting exactly center line. This is best done at 25m from a rest at a piece of 1" wide vertical tape.

For Bullseye zero: Zero @ 100m (usually 6-8 clicks up from bottom).
Elevation: Once you are in the bull @ 100m with a 6 o'clock hold, dial the elevation all the way down while carefully counting the number of clicks. REMEMBER THIS NUMBER IT IS YOUR ZERO! Dial the elevation back up, again counting the clicks. Now loosen your elev knob pinion screw while firmly holding the aperture in place and set the dial to the 100m mark. Tighten the screw and fire on target to confirm zero. All of your sight adjustments will now work off this specific number of clicks which is your zero. Remember that every rifle will be slightly different.

Hungry here: I like to tighten the (single hand tight, not 2 hands...) elevation pinion screw, then bottom out your aperture, tighten up more. Crank up your aperture all the way to the top, then tighten up AGAIN!

For battle zero: Zero @ 250m (usually 12-13 clicks up from bottom)
Then shoot point of aim. Allows for engagement of man sized targets from 0-400m by aiming center mass. This is of course not for precision shooting.

Using the sight working off your bullseye zero.
Range 200: 1 click = 2"
Range 300: 1 click = 3"
Range 400: 1 click = 4"
Range 500: 1 click = 5"
Range 600: 1 click = 6"
and so on.
M14 issue rifle 22" barrel 26" sight radius.

Range 200: Your shot hits 8" low. Raise elevation 4 clicks, fire.
Range 500: Your shot hits 15" low. Raise elevation 3 clicks, fire.
Range 600: Your shot hits a foot high. Lower elevation 2 clicks, fire.
Range 300: Your shot hits 9" high. Do the math.. Fire!

You always round up your clicks. Range 400: Your shot hits 10" high. You will lower elevation 3 clicks not 2.

Once you've mastered the grade 4 math calculations you can hit the range.
Target 500m. You turn your elevation knob to the 500m mark to engage a target at that distance and fire a spotting round.
Your spotter tells you it missed, 20" low, correction 4 clicks elevation, fire.
Once you become one with your rifle you will know the number of comeups (clicks) from zero required to make hits at certain distances. You can put them on a small laminated card and tape it to the stock. As long as you have that info you can simply estimate range, dial in and actually make a first round hit on target with that particular rifle.
Example: Target 400m, +16, fire.

Always reset your rifle back to its zero (and the windage back to center) when finished. If you cant remember write it on your rifle stock. Once you get good at this you will be able to make hits at varying distances very quickly.
Hungry here: At 100yds/meters, use every attempt to mechanically center your rear sight base with respect to the vernier scale (I like Whiteout or model paint) that is easier to read. Then zero for windage by (allen key to loosen) tweaking the front sight in the opposite direction you want the MPI or bullet strike to move into. This is for very serious competition or for you perfection addicts!

Windage knob Corrections
Formula is the same: 1 click L or R @ 100m shifts bullet impact approx 1"
@200m - 1 click = 2"
@300m - 1 click = 3"
and so on.
Correcting for Wind G.I. formula

Range X Wind speed divided by 10 = Number of clicks.

Winds coming from 12 and 6 o'clock have little effect. No correction.
Winds coming from 1,5,7,11 o' clock have a slight effect. Half correction.
Winds coming from 2,3,4, and 8,9,10 o'clock have greatest effect. Full correction.

Range 500:
Wind: 6 mph
Direction: 9 o'clock
5X6 = 30 div 10 = 3

Answer: 3 clicks, full correction, left windage
If it was a 1 o'clock wind it would be a half correction (1.5 clicks) On a standard GI sight that wont go so remember, round up your clicks.
It would be 2 clicks, right wind age.

Test
Range 400, 5 o'clock wind 18mph. Your first shot is a foot low and to the left of the target. How would you adjust your sights to try to make a hit with the next shot?



How do I sight-in my M1 Garand or M1A/M14-type rifle?
by Walt Kuleck

The starting point for windage zeroing your M1 or M14 is to get a "no-wind" windage zero. Center your rear sight according to the index marks on the receiver and sight base. Center the front sight in its dovetail (loosen the Allen-head screw, of course) as best you can by eye. Using a pencil, draw a witness mark on the sight & base. Fire a group at 100 yards (under "no wind" conditions, of course!). If your group is not centered, loosen the front sight and move it opposite to the direction you want the group to move. Continue to fire and adjust until your group is centered. You may, of course, have to put a click or three on the windage if your front sight starts to overhang the sight base. If you find that your front sight is "way too far" over, you may have a bent barrel or other problem; consult with Clint.

For elevation, start with eight clicks up from the bottom at 100 yards. Each click (either windage or elevation) with standard sights is 1 MOA, so one click will move you one inch. Typically you'll come *down* one click at 200 yards. If you can, confirm your zero at 200 yards; this will allow you to loosen the screw in the elevation knob and turn the knob so that the "2" mark is opposite the index on the sight base.
 
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