Norinco M305/M14

[Seafury]

I would also say 'hunt with whatever is legal and appropriate for the task' and to that statement I'd add 'try at least once a season to take something out that is legal but outside of the norm' - let's cement the sense that a M14 or a CZ858 is a legitimate and popular hunting rifle as in doing so it will make them less of a target for the ban hammer.

Oh and by the way Seafury I'd also add that having 'professional white collar friends' doesn't mean they are not interested in guns - maybe true of your friends but not mine !

Mine seem more concerned about their portfolio. I don't think that sounds like as much fun. Once again I fail to make my point widely understood. I think the M14 pattern rifle is my personal favorite. That and the AR 15. I have three of each. Don't confuse me with someone who is anti semi. I'm not but think there is a better choice for someone who has to ask.

I find myself getting defensive and perhaps I deserve it but if you speak against the Norinco for any reason you'll get dog piled here. Live and learn.

Don't take an M14 hunting, take two.

 

[Rocket Surgery]

Run and hide? Not likely.

At no time did I say forget ther Norinco get an SA. I wouldn't recomend either for someone "inexperienced enough to ask". Yes I did say that a troublesome rifle could be discouraging. Yes I did say that their problems are well documented. If he hunts with a CZ858 why the hell would he need advice on using the M14S? Sounds like an inexperienced hunter/shooter to me.

I don't want you to hide your military firearms. Odds are I've done it longer than you. My experience is that most people don't understand your desire to own one. Brandishing it and yelling its your right solves nothing. I'll open my gun safe if a friend asks me to. Otherwise its a piece of furniture and I don't discuss it. The difference is perhaps that most of my personal friends are white collar profesionals who have no interest.

Many years ago after that #### Marc Lepine commited an unthinkable act firearms were big news in this country. Here in Calgary the media chose to go to a certain gun store whose owner had a fascination with WWII Germand militaria. He was as proud as a peacock as they interviwed him and asked his opinion on firerarms control as if he was the local authority. The whole time the camera crew had arranged it so that a Nazi flag was directly behind Col Klink. There he was, smile on his face with a massive swastika behind him. All that was missing was a brown shirt and red arm band.

The media will always do their best to portray us as unsophisticated rednecks. Don't make it easy for them.

So basically if I put my m305 in a Monte Carlo stock and used a 5 round mag, we'd be bros?

Consider how stupid this thread already is, it can always get worse. Behold:

Please lock it!

 

[hillmanr2]

IBTL

When any gun owner places special significance on the way a gun looks we play directly into the anti gun liberals hands. There is a argument ongoing on the CBC website about "assault rifles". Guess what the biggest argument the antis are using?

"you can't hunt with it" This is and has been one of the main arguments for decades. As gun owners we play right into the trap set for us by c-68.

Anytime a hunter or gun owner says pistol grip rifles, flash hiders, barrel shrouds or shoulder things that go up, aren't good for hunting, you weaken our position that a gun is a gun, no matter what it looks like and you aid and assist the enemy in thier cause more than they ever could. Everyone should know this by now, they come for the auto's, then the semi's, bolts are sniper rifles, levers are glorified western killing machines, pumps fire to fast and so on.

True fudds are worse than anti's. Some, more than just the people posting in this thread need to wake up from the c-68 hangover and get with the program.

 

[giwolf]

IBTL

When any gun owner places special significance on the way a gun looks we play directly into the anti gun liberals hands. There is a argument ongoing on the CBC website about "assault rifles". Guess what the biggest argument the antis are using?

"you can't hunt with it" This is and has been one of the main arguments for decades. As gun owners we play right into the trap set for us by c-68.

Anytime a hunter or gun owner says pistol grip rifles, flash hiders, barrel shrouds or shoulder things that go up, aren't good for hunting, you weaken our position that a gun is a gun, no matter what it looks like and you aid and assist the enemy in thier cause more than they ever could. Everyone should know this by now, they come for the auto's, then the semi's, bolts are sniper rifles, levers are glorified western killing machines, pumps fire to fast and so on.

True fudds are worse than anti's. Some, more than just the people posting in this thread need to wake up from the c-68 hangover and get with the program.

Absolutely correct!!!!

 

[M14Doctor]

2 thumbs up hillmanr2 , you nailed it.

 

[Seafury]

Last post in the thread

I’ll tell you my story and perhaps you’ll understand a bit better as to how I became a FUDD. In the eighties I developed an interest in military rifles when they were easy to own, transport and shoot. I had an FAL, TRW M14 and a Colt Hbar. Life was good and only the FAL had conditions attached to it.

I moved to rural Saskatchewan in Sept 92 and went in to the local RCMP detachment to register my already registered FAL as was required by the latest firearms regulations. The officer that I met that day asked me to bring the rifle in which I did and he promptly took it to the back and returned telling me it wouldn’t be returned to me. After a two hour conversation and my insistence I would obtain a lawyer he agreed to return it under the condition that I provide documentation proving the conversion on the rifle was up to the standards required by Ottawa. Fortunately I am an Engineering Draftsman by training, owned the armorers manual and have a Gun Smithing diploma. I submitted my paper and never heard a word about it again.

In 98 the month of which escapes me I purchased a Sig pistol of which the barrel length was under 106mm. When I returned to the same detachment I was made to sign a document that stated I understood that I may not be able to keep it because of the impending regulation changes. I found a local guy who had an HK91 and did a trade assuming all would be well. I had that HK in my possession no fewer than 3 times. I moved back to Calgary with it but in the end had to sell it because I did not qualify as a 12-5. This seemed totally ridiculous as I had a converted auto in my possession. As you may be aware we no longer have the right to shoot these rifles.

In 2006 I went through a divorce and a lot of single malt Scotch. One day at work I received a call from the Calgary City police while at my desk inquiring as to my whereabouts. I told them to call my cell back and left the office. When they called back I told them I was in my building on the plus 15 and at their request described what I was wearing. Immediately two uniforms came around the corner and approached me. They had take down on their faces as one maneuvered in behind me. Here I am in a shirt and tie getting cornered by the police in a public place. After a conversation these guys calmed down but insisted I turn over my firearms. I voluntarily did so as to be cooperative. A warrant would have been obtained anyway and was in fact in the works. My keys were in my jacket in my office upstairs and they insisted I be accompanied to get them. I’ll never forget the looks from my coworkers as they escorted me in and out. When we arrived at my home there were two cruisers in the driveway. In total four officers came in my home and loaded my firearms in the trunk of a cruiser. I suggested we do it in the garage out of the neighbors eyes. They thought that was a good idea. They were very respectful, doing a job and supported the return of my firearms later. I can’t say enough good things about them. The next day I went to work and was asked to see my manager. I told them what had happened. And it was decided that I represented an unnecessary risk. As a consultant on contract I was terminated. Wife gone guns gone job gone. Merry Christmas.

What sparked the removal of my firearms? When my dear mother heard of my separation she tried to contact me at home at 5 Am. Having a thick head I ignored the call. Out of concern she called the crisis center to locate me who in turn called CPS. Thanks Ma. When they saw the list of firearms it triggered a response. I’m sure it would have been somewhat different if I had a traditional 3 gun battery. As it turns out the SWAT team had been at my home that morning. Snipers on roofs and in the trees according to my neighbors I found out later. The neighbors who would talk to the crazy guy. I got my firearms back. It took a year and $10,000 including lost time. I hired a lawyer who specializes in firearms law. Fortunately I had kept every piece of paper the RCMP ever sent to me. Every gun club membership card, FAC application, ATT and I had character references from my friends who were Presidents and VP’s of oil and gas companies. Letters from my siblings and father. I put them all together in a binder. When presented to the Crown Prosecutor even he supported the return of my firearms. My ex wife showed up in court and stated she did not feel I was a threat. With all this and recommendation from the Crown the Judge still deliberated in chambers with my documentation for nearly two hours. (He may have been playing paddle ball) I can understand how difficult a decision it would be for him. What if I did something stupid on the return of my firearms? It would look very bad. I nearly lost my firearms and privileges that day and for what? I didn’t threaten anyone. My storage was impeccable as stated by CPS. I had always been a member of a club and a responsible firearms owner. I did nothing but get drunk and not answer a phone.

When I hear you talk about your rights I laugh. You don’t have any and one phone call from a disgruntled girlfriend and your ass will be in a sling. And if that CZ is sitting on your coffee table next to a “banana” mag with rounds in it when they arrive you’ll really be screwed. Don’t be fooled, if another government obtains power that is unsympathetic to our cause we’ll have another batch of restrictions on your so called rights. So when I suggest you guys to be good stewards of this hobby I do it from personal experience. I’ve seen over the last 25 years which direction things are going. Even the Conservatives will not die on the firearms issue and every time some woman hating POS like Lepine does something it erodes the insulation that they can provide us. I doubt very much most of you could have put up anywhere near the presentation I did to reacquire my firearms. I have always taken my ownership of firearms very seriously as should you. We all have a stake in the game.

It takes a bit of courage to stand up to all of you when the mob mentality kicks in and every dimwit takes the popular stance and dogpiles a guy. You all know full well how ignorant the general population and those with the power to control them are about firearms. Wake up and accept that we need to be seen as mainstream members of society. The question was “should I use an M14 to hunt game”? My response “you would be better served by something else as a beginner”. I’m not a beginner. Then why are you asking? I also don’t think a 3 MOA rifle is the best choice for hunting. My opinion, does not have to be yours.

 

[giwolf]

Seafury I agree that all it takes is a call and the wrath of the authorities can fall but this also the reason we have to stand up. You are right, we have no rights.

However when we stand up in an intelligent manner eventually we get the laws changed, hence the repeal of the LGR.

If we go on the defensive because of intimidation from the authorities and lefties we are handing them the win and oppressive, regressive, unjustified gun laws multiply and liberties will continue to be eroded.


You were a casualty of this and my sympathies are with you, however as I believe Boehoffer said regarding the Nazi's "All it takes for evil to multiply is for good men to do nothing"

I will follow the laws, work to get bad laws tossed, BUT I will not be intimidated, including the choice of what gun I hunt with and I still say the Fudds are playing into the arguments of the gun grabbers by condemning those that excersize that choice. I believe when the gun community stands as one with a unified voice things can change.

 

[Kayser Sose]

Jeezus christ seefury, my heart goes out to you.

I will for my first hunt later next year, take out my Norinco M14-lookin rifle, just because I'm wired like that, and I shall rest assured that my humility and moderation will cause no concern by those who might see me... in the middle of the woods.

Holy crap, Mr 'Fury, wow. A lesson for all in there...

 

[Rocket Surgery]

This is why I bought a heavy rifle, not that I'm a girl or anything:

 

[shredder]

I'm not surprised she got bit by the scope, look where the butt of the rifle is just before she pulls the trigger!!!

 

[machman]

Thanks for sharing your story Seafury

 

[the_klenzer]

Hey Seafury
As a new guy to firearms in Canada, just wanted to say I appreciate your story (which sucks, btw!) as a sobering reminder of what could go wrong.
Thanks for posting it!

 

[sobo4303]

Seafury,

Your story regarding overzealous police tactics have a troubling history of repeating itself. Yours is but one of dozens I have heard and read about.

That is why we have an MP whom is fighting hard to have changes made to the registry and enforcement. Remember back in 2006...the issue was political and involved the RCMP brass. The other factor was that Mayerthorpe (fallen four) were still fresh in the minds of law enforcement and over-reaction to firearms issues was protocol rather than judgement.

We need to be vocal and supportive of our elected MP's in their efforts to change things for the better. I know I do.

 

[Seafury]

Oh kay I said last post

Seafury,

Your story regarding overzealous police tactics have a troubling history of repeating itself. Yours is but one of dozens I have heard and read about.

That is why we have an MP whom is fighting hard to have changes made to the registry and enforcement. Remember back in 2006...the issue was political and involved the RCMP brass. The other factor was that Mayerthorpe (fallen four) were still fresh in the minds of law enforcement and over-reaction to firearms issues was protocol rather than judgement.

We need to be vocal and supportive of our elected MP's in their efforts to change things for the better. I know I do.

Actually the police were doing their jobs. They seemed as surprised as I was about the reasoning for the seizure. They were impressed about my knowledge and the storage of my firearms. I was reasonable with them and as a result they supported the return of them.

We can thank politicians for creating laws that allow seizure of your firearms on here say and nothing more. I have stood up for myself and trust me a young man standing in an RCMP detachment arguing the validity of his owning a 12-3 is a little intimidated. I made a strong effort to keep the HK and I was required to turn it in twice. Putting together an excellent presentation to recover my firearms was also fighting the system using methods that are acceptable and reasonable in our society. The Judge was fair and made the right decision, he is tasked with protecting society on the whole and it was within his power to have my firearms kept and destroyed without compensation to me.

While the Conservatives may repeal the long gun registry that's as far as they will go because there is no public support to reduce the restrictions on prohibited and restricted firearms. Most thinking Canadians however do understand that registration of all firearms at a huge cost has no effect on public safety. In the end the Conservatives want to form the government. They will not lose public support on this issue. Believe me I'm the first one to agree a gun is a gun and it should be just that simple. It's not.

In order to really make headway you have to convince the majority of Canadians that we are a responsible, intelligent segment of society. I've heard arguments that a case can be made for firearms ownership as a right because it is addressed in British law and therefore applies to us. My understanding is that nobody has made that argument for fear of losing just as the authorities won't go to Bountiful and arrest that slime bag Blackthorn for polygamy and child abuse. They are afraid they might actually lose based on religious freedoms.

Check out this site egpworld.com. I think this guy knows what he is talking about as it pertains to our image.
As an American he actually has firearms rights. I went and shot two service rifle matches this year. Our usage of AR15 rifles was secured by the DCRA. I encourage everyone to go out and participate as to show the authorities we are participating in an organized sport. Take your Garand or Enfield or whatever military rifle you have and enjoy. You'll learn a lot and become a better shooter.

In the end your behavior and the image that we portray as a group is the most powerful tool at our disposal to make a case for individual firearms ownership. We all have a responsibility to each other to be good stewards of the hobby.