Norinco YL 12-1 M-37 "Tactical"
- Thread starter Zygy
- Start date
grayrc said:
I was just about to buy one of these...thanks guys.
This has been an eye opener. I think I'll stick with my 870.What's with Norinco anyway? Chinese labour is cheap...they of anyone could spend days polishing up this junk. Why ship guns that are so burred up and sloppily built that they don't work?
I don't know, but honestly, I can't imagine why you'd want to take the parts off a Norinco and put them on an actual Ithica. If you've seen one of the Norinco's then you know what I'm talking about. I had to re-glue the recoil pad on my folding stock and the site on my barrel was welded on at 15 degrees off the radial axis, there was significant scoring in the barrel (on arrival), the gun wouldn't feed because the chamber end of the barrel was so rough, etc...
IMHO, if you have a genuine Ithica you want to turn into a tactical shotgun, there must be a cheaper way to go than parting out a Norinco clone, and you'd end-up with better end results.
/gc
IMHO, if you have a genuine Ithica you want to turn into a tactical shotgun, there must be a cheaper way to go than parting out a Norinco clone, and you'd end-up with better end results.
/gc
grayrc said:
The only way I'd buy one of these shotguns after reading all the posts on here including yours is if I could go to Marstar and hand pick one myself with cycling snap caps through it part of the process...wonder if they'd go for that?? They do sound like something of a POS...
- Location
- Surrey, BC
I don't think cycling snap caps would expose any cycling issues. Mine used to jam the most with heavy payload 3" magnum waterfowl loads, and others have found more problems with 2.75" loads. Basically, you need the weight of the payload to expose any cycling issues.cantom said:
In addition, yes they are kinda crappy, but you get what you pay for, and if you want a cheap tactical shotgun there's nothing else to be had for an even remotely comparable price! Yes, they're rough outta the box, but with a little work and some use mine cycles just fine with minimal jams. I also had to glue the recoil pad back on, in fact I sanded down the end of the stock so that the pad sits flush on it (there was a little circumfrential 1/4" wide raised lip that was the only area to see any glue) and then contact cemented it, that thing's never coming off now!
If you don't like working on guns, don't get a Norc M37. They need work, outta the box. If you like tinkering (like me), go ahead, and the money you save will buy an extra few boxes of shells so you can blast a few more water jugs. That's basically what it comes down to.
cantom said:
You're absolutely right. Clearly the guy beating the drum and his buddy with the whip need to be sent on some management quality training
re the snap caps - as per PoweredByBeer - my results varied (2 3/4" plastic wouldn't cycle, but I was able to get it to feed heavier 3" caps... even though the gun shaved strips off of them!). Myself and a 2 friends bought these - so I've played with three from the fall 2005 'shipment'. We literally couldn't get one to cycle 2 3/4" shot loads ... at all. One of them was moderately better than the other two, but still couldn't have been called 'reliable', even with 3" slugs which seemed to work 'better' but still failed to feed at an unacceptable rate.
I absolutely agree that when you buy a Norinco you accept the trade-off for a discounted price and commit to doing some work to tune it (more or less depending on which Norinco model), and I think if there's some reasonable expectation that you'll end up with a reliable gun with decent fit & finish then it's worth spending the time. I like working on guns too... but I'd rather make a good gun 'better' than spend time trying to get a POS working...
If you're buying something for actual defense (home, camp, etc...), it seems to me that you want very low failure rate - I just wasn't convinced that any amount of polishing/grinding (or other gunsmithing that was within the scope of my time & abilities) would get me to that point. If Marstar wasn't so committed to customer satisfaction, I might be out in the workshop polishing it right now... but I sent it in thinking I might as well get them to have a look at it while it's still under warranty, and they decided to refund the money - I took that as an sign of how much work might have been required to get it working right.
I've come to the conclusion that based on the relatively minimal price difference for a 'reliable' shotgun (an 870 express synthetic for example) it isn't worth the risk of having something unreliable. If I was buying it for plinking that would be different, but I wanted a backpacking gun and got sucked in by the folding stock. I can still shoot a bear/bad guy/zombie without a folding stock, heat shield, ghost ring sights, etc..., but the Norinco was just a $200 club.
What's unfortunate is that although this may be an a-typically bad bad example of Norinco's quality (maybe the Ithica action just doesn't lend itself to Chinese manufacturing), it's left me very reluctant to try other Norinco's (even though I've heard good things about their 870 clone, the 1911, the M305, etc...). If I were Marstar... I'd consider dropping this one from the line-up.
/gc
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grayrc said:You're absolutely right. Clearly the guy beating the drum and the other guy with the whip need to be sent on some management quality training
/gc
Hahaha, I hear ya...I've decided if I want an Ithaca I'll find an original one at the gun show.
Once again though, does anyone know if the YL12 folding stock will bolt up to an original Ithaca? That's the main thing I like, especially for the price.
I have a 14" 870 Police Magnum btw, it works extremely well and I've never had a jam...I'm glad for this site, it has saved me from making a very frustrating POS mistake!!!
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I haven't any prroblems with the 3 in my circle, but they were all disasembled and deburred and polished, as I have done with my 4 m-305's , and3 1911 clones. I dought any of the 305's or 1911's would have functioned straight out of the box without cleaning at least ,they were so full of grease and swarf.
The sights alone on ithica tactical are worth what marstar retails the shotgun for, never mind the folding stock, heat shield etc.
When testing a shotgun for functioning, don't use snap caps, they are not meant for fuunction-feeding testing in repeaters. Use factory made or handloaded dummys, which have a shot charge and wad in them, as well as a fired primer and some sand to take the powders place and weight. Brownells sells these in several gages if you don't handload shot shells.
The sights alone on ithica tactical are worth what marstar retails the shotgun for, never mind the folding stock, heat shield etc.
When testing a shotgun for functioning, don't use snap caps, they are not meant for fuunction-feeding testing in repeaters. Use factory made or handloaded dummys, which have a shot charge and wad in them, as well as a fired primer and some sand to take the powders place and weight. Brownells sells these in several gages if you don't handload shot shells.
grayrc said:You're absolutely right. Clearly the guy beating the drum and his buddy with the whip need to be sent on some management quality training
re the snap caps - as per PoweredByBeer - my results varied (2 3/4" plastic wouldn't cycle, but I was able to get it to feed heavier 3" caps... even though the gun shaved strips off of them!). Myself and a 2 friends bought these - so I've played with three from the fall 2005 'shipment'. We literally couldn't get one to cycle 2 3/4" shot loads ... at all. One of them was moderately better than the other two, but still couldn't have been called 'reliable', even with 3" slugs which seemed to work 'better' but still failed to feed at an unacceptable rate.
I absolutely agree that when you buy a Norinco you accept the trade-off for a discounted price and commit to doing some work to tune it (more or less depending on which Norinco model), and I think if there's some reasonable expectation that you'll end up with a reliable gun with decent fit & finish then it's worth spending the time. I like working on guns too... but I'd rather make a good gun 'better' than spend time trying to get a POS working...
If you're buying something for actual defense (home, camp, etc...), it seems to me that you want very low failure rate - I just wasn't convinced that any amount of polishing/grinding (or other gunsmithing that was within the scope of my time & abilities) would get me to that point. If Marstar wasn't so committed to customer satisfaction, I might be out in the workshop polishing it right now... but I sent it in thinking I might as well get them to have a look at it while it's still under warranty, and they decided to refund the money - I took that as an sign of how much work might have been required to get it working right.
I've come to the conclusion that based on the relatively minimal price difference for a 'reliable' shotgun (an 870 express synthetic for example) it isn't worth the risk of having something unreliable. If I was buying it for plinking that would be different, but I wanted a backpacking gun and got sucked in by the folding stock. I can still shoot a bear/bad guy/zombie without a folding stock, heat shield, ghost ring sights, etc..., but the Norinco was just a $200 club.
What's unfortunate is that although this may be an a-typically bad bad example of Norinco's quality (maybe the Ithica action just doesn't lend itself to Chinese manufacturing), it's left me very reluctant to try other Norinco's (even though I've heard good things about their 870 clone, the 1911, the M305, etc...). If I were Marstar... I'd consider dropping this one from the line-up.
/gc
Remember the movie "Christine"? About the possessed car? That famous line from that movie reminds me of this shotgun- "You can't polish a turd"....
Not sure what this shotgun looks like, but for only $ 550.00 (taxes in) Cdn.
minus the red dot optic, saddle mount & the heat shield.you can have this set up like on mine.
$360 plus taxes for the gun & approx. $ 105.00 for pistol grip stock, w/ pad
it's a Winchester defender - 18" barrel, 7 in the tube + 1= 8 rounds total,
w/ a 6 position AR type stock.
I've NEVER had a feeding problem & it's a quality make !
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/colt45gunner/MyToys2.jpg
How low of a price is this Norinco, that you'd buy it over a winchester ?
minus the red dot optic, saddle mount & the heat shield.you can have this set up like on mine.
$360 plus taxes for the gun & approx. $ 105.00 for pistol grip stock, w/ pad
it's a Winchester defender - 18" barrel, 7 in the tube + 1= 8 rounds total,
w/ a 6 position AR type stock.
I've NEVER had a feeding problem & it's a quality make !
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/colt45gunner/MyToys2.jpg
How low of a price is this Norinco, that you'd buy it over a winchester ?
Having hada few 1200 win, and one 2200, and still having a n.i.b. unfired 1200 winchester, I can honestly say I wouln't want another one, even for free. If you gave me one, I would sell it, buy a dog, and shoot the dog!
- Location
- Surrey, BC
My Norc cost me about $250 (with shipping & taxes) by the time it arrived at my door. It looks like this;
IMHO, for what I wanted it for, it's a great deal and I'm happy with it. I enjoy taking it apart and fiddling with it. I may be a rare customer, the kind who will buy junk and be happy with it, but so be it. To each his own, as they say Nice toys BTW colt45gunner, looks damn cool!
To answer cantom's question, I don't know for sure if the folding stock & pistol grip will attach to an Ithaca M37. Maybe call Marstar and ask?
IMHO, for what I wanted it for, it's a great deal and I'm happy with it. I enjoy taking it apart and fiddling with it. I may be a rare customer, the kind who will buy junk and be happy with it, but so be it. To each his own, as they say
Nice toys BTW colt45gunner, looks damn cool!To answer cantom's question, I don't know for sure if the folding stock & pistol grip will attach to an Ithaca M37. Maybe call Marstar and ask?
poweredbybeer said:My Norc cost me about $250 (with shipping & taxes) by the time it arrived at my door. It looks like this;
IMHO, for what I wanted it for, it's a great deal and I'm happy with it. I enjoy taking it apart and fiddling with it. I may be a rare customer, the kind who will buy junk and be happy with it, but so be it. To each his own, as they say
Thanx, they are fun to shoot too
cool shotgun too buddy. still recomend a retractable stock over a folding one, so you can adjust length of pull. also depends on what you're using it for, i guess.
What would I recomend over a win 1200-1300-2200 series?, my personal favorite win model 12, next skb 7300-7900 which is an improved rem. 870. Next rem 870 wing master NOT the express, then Ithica 37 series, the older the better.
I have no expierience with the euro pumps. or the Mossbergs.
I have no expierience with the euro pumps. or the Mossbergs.
Kano said:
No idea but...are you thinking of buying one? I've read many posts on here and I'm pretty much...I'd have to be able to handle a bunch of them and pick. Let them send any piece of junk someone returned? Hahahaha....
