I know for a time holland and holland were finishing guns they bought from webley and scott and were engraved "H&H" and "shot and regulated by holland". Ive come across several hollands named the holland northwood. Known dates in the adds put these around mid 1950s. Theyre case colored boxlocks and cheap compared to say a holland royal or other sidelock. Are these northwoods actually Holland made or just a london finished rebranding? Still above my means at this time because the exchange rate and import fees at this time really would kick my credit limits azz. However ive been seeing them in good condition for 8 to 9 thousand usd for the 2.5" chambered version and slightly less for the 2.75" wildfowler which is slightly heavier as well. They seem to come with the features id like in a boxlock im just wondering if theyre a value priced holland or an overpriced gun wearing a big name
Northwood hollands
- Thread starter brybenn
- Start date
A box lock gun would likely be bought in from Webley & Scott. I've seen a Webley side lock that had been engraved with the H&H name. The name carries a premium, but I wouldn't consider them better than a gun with a lesser known name. For 8-9000 you should be able to pick up a really nice box lock, and a lot of side lock guns would fall into that price range as well.
Buy the gun, not the name.
You can buy a hell of a lot of boxlock for $9-10K. I wouldn't touch a Boxlock Holland because you ARE paying for the name. If you want a stunning boxlock, start searching for a Lindner Charles Daly Diamond Quality. As well made as best gun that came from Purdey or H & H, collectible but not saddled with the horrendous upcharge that carrying the name of one of the London big four comes with.
The various boxlocks marketed by Holland and Holland 1950's to 1980's were all made by Webley and Scott. The ones marked "shot and regulated by" were exactly the same as the best W and C Scott models made by W&S except for the H & H markings. After Holland and Holland bought Webley and Scott out they made some changes to the line including a replaceable hinge pin and renamed them. W&s also made boxlock double rifles for them and they as well as many others made rook rifles and single shot rifles for them. Holland and Holland really did not produce most of their own guns in house except the very highest grades, and none before about the mid 1890's. Doesn't seem to hurt their status though. To find a real best quality boxlock your best bet is to look prewar, buy quality not the name. If you really want a Holland and Holland these various boxlocks are the least expensive way to scratch the itch and prices are climbing. Quality is on par with most higher grade English boxlocks of the 60's, 70's,80's.
That would be a lower grade hammer gun. Detailed and specific model info on the hammer guns is hard to come by. They were made by both H.A Lindner and his father before him. Need more detailed info (proofs and serial number) to close in on a date and therefore who made it. The apex of Lindner Dalys are the boxlocks from roughly 1895 through 1910.
Byron, you started discussing boxlocks so this is more along the lines I was thinking of when I mentioned Daly's. This is an unrestored gun I found in north central Ontario. Built around 1895. I'm having a 12 ga restored right now that is about 10 years newer....1905-1907ish.
You would be paying for the H & H name in buying a Northwood gun, but not getting the quality in the bargain. It is a good boxlock, but you could buy the same gun, or equivalent to the gun, by a lesser maker for a quarter of the price.
The market for anything but the very "Best" of British guns is very, very soft in the US, and not better in Canada.
I am another guy recommending "buy the gun, not the name."
The market for anything but the very "Best" of British guns is very, very soft in the US, and not better in Canada.
I am another guy recommending "buy the gun, not the name."
Byron, to put the cost of the Holland name in perspective, there is a guy of doublegun who has been doing a 20 years analysis of auction prices on British and Continental vintage SxS. The data base contains literally 1000's of guns and their sold prices at auctions.
He has analyzed the impact of brand name (maker) and how it affects the sold price of an equivalent gun from some other makers. Works like this. He has 9 categories of original quality gun. Is it a Best Sidelock? Is it an unadorned basic boxlock? And everything in between. Then he has nine categories of current condition from LNIB (pristine) to wallhanger.
If you take any English vintage SxS you can assess original quality and current condition. Then you can see the impact of the brand name. That impact has five categories and is as follows:
A no name Continental gun has a brand value of 1
A branded Continental gun has a brand value of 2
The top echelon of Continental makers, of which there are about 10 named, has a brand value of 4, as do the vast majority of British trade.
The second tier of Brit makers, including names like Beesley, Churchill, Greener, Rigby, Westley Richards and others (about 18 total) have a brand value of 6
The top tier of English makers....there is only 4....Boss, Holland, Purdey and Woodward have a brand value of 8.
How does it work? The identical gun, in identical condition with Webley & Scott (brand value factor of 4) on it, will sell for roughly half of what it would with the Holland (brand value factor of 8) name on it. And the same gun from a non-celebrated Continental maker (brand value 2) will sell for half the price the Webley and Scott version will get.
You can see why, as a shooter, I like Continental guns.
He has analyzed the impact of brand name (maker) and how it affects the sold price of an equivalent gun from some other makers. Works like this. He has 9 categories of original quality gun. Is it a Best Sidelock? Is it an unadorned basic boxlock? And everything in between. Then he has nine categories of current condition from LNIB (pristine) to wallhanger.
If you take any English vintage SxS you can assess original quality and current condition. Then you can see the impact of the brand name. That impact has five categories and is as follows:
A no name Continental gun has a brand value of 1
A branded Continental gun has a brand value of 2
The top echelon of Continental makers, of which there are about 10 named, has a brand value of 4, as do the vast majority of British trade.
The second tier of Brit makers, including names like Beesley, Churchill, Greener, Rigby, Westley Richards and others (about 18 total) have a brand value of 6
The top tier of English makers....there is only 4....Boss, Holland, Purdey and Woodward have a brand value of 8.
How does it work? The identical gun, in identical condition with Webley & Scott (brand value factor of 4) on it, will sell for roughly half of what it would with the Holland (brand value factor of 8) name on it. And the same gun from a non-celebrated Continental maker (brand value 2) will sell for half the price the Webley and Scott version will get.
You can see why, as a shooter, I like Continental guns.
I get what youre saying. My favorite two sxs guns are my old baikal ij58 and a lil arizaga. I shoot both well.
I love that box lock you posted. Ideally id like to own a nice boxlock ejector and 7 pin side lock ejector in time.
Owning a holland would satisfy the sentimental itch to pay tribute to the gentleman that got me into double guns and skeet and helped make a major change in my life. The daly i posted belonged to him.
Im a sucker for vibrant case colors and figured walnut over names. I still have to finish renovating my house before i start really shopping for higher quality double guns but its info such as whats been provided in here that helps. So many nice guns have been made all over the world
I love that box lock you posted. Ideally id like to own a nice boxlock ejector and 7 pin side lock ejector in time.
Owning a holland would satisfy the sentimental itch to pay tribute to the gentleman that got me into double guns and skeet and helped make a major change in my life. The daly i posted belonged to him.
Im a sucker for vibrant case colors and figured walnut over names. I still have to finish renovating my house before i start really shopping for higher quality double guns but its info such as whats been provided in here that helps. So many nice guns have been made all over the world
Hope you will make it to the annual SxS shoot this year. We can talk a lot more about this if you want with the guns right in front of us. Nothing wrong with sentimentality driving a acquisition. I think people like Ashcroft and Saskbooknut and I am just trying to make sure you know the cost of your choices.
This is VERY true. Bad time to be a seller. Great as a buyer/shooter. Not so much as a collector because I have my doubts about the long term values.
