Nose diving 1911

F

Firstfishman

Regular
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Location
Edmonton, Alberta
Hello everyone.

I would like to start by saying I have read almost every article or post and watched almost every video regarding this issue on the internet. Unfortunately I can't accept that the only fixes for this issue is to buy different mags, chop or replace mag springs, and/or to polish the feed ramp. With all these people gushing over how amazing 1911's are there has to be a permanent fix for this issue somewhere. I am not interested in a band-aid.

I have purchased 4 different magazine types and have had my Remington R1 1911 Centennial Edition looked at by 2 gun smiths. One at the factory warranty Gravel Agency (thanks for the idiot scratch in my pristine bluing), and another local here in Edmonton. Both times it seemed to have been fixed, at first. Alas as with all band-aids, it eventually fell off and the issue reared it's ugly head again.

I am not a gun smith. I do not have any skills that I would be willing to apply to my own pistol. I have more money than time to deal with this issue. If someone out there can fix this, once and for all, please let me know. I love this pistol and would hate to pawn this lemon off on someone else in order to recuperate my cost.

Thank you for any help you can offer.
 
You might want to try a slightly heavier slide spring. That's fixed the issue in a couple of 1911's for me, and it's a cheap fix. It doesn't sound like a magazine problem. You shouldn't have to mess with the feed ramp, the nose of the bullet hits it and jumps up. It's not a bearing surface, and my norc works just fine with machining grooves on the ramp. Also, if there's a buffer installed, try removing it. Lastly, it could be an extractor tension problem, which is easy to fix, just search youtube videos.
 
There are many factors that cause nose diving.

What calibre is the pistol
When is it happening? First middle or last round
What type of ammo? Factory or reloads
What weight recoil spring?
What brand of magazines, 7 or 8 or 10 rounders.

definately can be the mag release position too, after debris builds up on it too.

99% of the cause is magazines, the follower or spring tension.

Hope you complained about the scratch to Graval.

PS: there is no good local pistolsmith in Edmonton, especially one that knows the 1911. If Dean looked at it, he's a hack.

PM me, maybe I can help you out.
 
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I'm guessing that the mag release isn't the issue as the problem cleared up and then returned. A mag release seating the mag low would cause the problem continuously wouldn't it?

Op, have you ever found that your slide doesn't fully return to battery on occasion?
 
Both times it seemed to have been fixed, at first. Alas as with all band-aids, it eventually fell off and the issue reared it's ugly head again.
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I'm not aware of anything that can be just "stuck on" and which will fall off at some later date to fix something like what you have. Some additional information on what these places did would point us in a better direction.

What ammo have you tried in the gun and if you think back on it did a switch in ammo produce an associated change in how the gun cycled? Or does it work for a while after you clean the gun and then get progressively worse as it fouls up again? The trick here is to try to nail down the conditions of ammo, mags and gun condition when it works and when it shifts to not working. You don't need to lift up so much as a single tool for this. Just try to analyze which combo works well and which produces a problem. Information which is really going to aid anyone. And gunsmiths are not telepathic fortune tellers so they are going to be able to help you a lot better with such information as well.

Basically your part in all this, even if you don't care to learn and have no interest in doing the work yourself, is to be able to pass on to your next gunsmith these conditions and circumstances where the gun worked and where the gun stopped working. If you're shooting factory ammo I'd even keep a few rounds of ammo which works and that which causes problems but which you would like to be able to use if that's the case. I'd also keep track of if the gun works indoors in the warm while failing outdoors where it's cold. Perhaps your choice of gun cleaning and lubricating products is the issue. Or maybe it's how you apply them and how they react to extreme cold. The point here is that since the gun worked for while with some combination and condition it points to the idea that you changed something that stopped it from working. The trick is to find what did that. Once you know them either correct your own procedure or buy that good sort of ammo. Or if you want to be able to use some particular ammo that makes it fail then tell THAT to the smith. It'll give them a direction to pursue instead of flailing around in the dark not realizing what the actual issue is.

Me? I'm not a gunsmith either other than on my own guns. I've solved my share of problems in the past for myself and even talked a couple of folks through their own issues on forums like this. But with the information you gave I wouldn't even know where to start. And that should point out that you need to pay more attention to what you're doing that is producing the problem. I'm not saying that what you are doing is "wrong". Just that it seems like you likely changed something quite innocently that is making the gun stop working well. If you can figure that out you can either fix your own problem by changing your ways or ammo choice or at least you can pass the information on to the smith so they know where to look and fix the TRUE issue.
 
BCRider said:
Basically your part in all this, even if you don't care to learn and have no interest in doing the work yourself, is to buy a Glock
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Fixed it for you.

All joking aside, if you're not into learning about the platform and troubleshooting issues, a 1911 or any other old school semi may not be the best choice. Modern service pistols, for all their utilitarian blandness, are much more reliable with much less upkeep.
 
madcow said:
There are many factors that cause nose diving.

What calibre is the pistol
When is it happening? First middle or last round
What type of ammo? Factory or reloads
What weight recoil spring?
What brand of magazines, 7 or 8 or 10 rounders.

definately can be the mag release position too, after debris builds up on it too.

99% of the cause is magazines, the follower or spring tension.

Hope you complained about the scratch to Graval.

PS: there is no good local pistolsmith in Edmonton, especially one that knows the 1911. If Dean looked at it, he's a hack.

PM me, maybe I can help you out.
Click to expand...

So "Dean" isn't a friend of mine, I don't know him nor have I ever done business with him...but you've touched on something that seems to be commonplace nowadays that our grandfathers would never do. That being, engaging in disparaging remarks that could negatively impact the earning potential of another man.
Perhaps this is why? :) http://www.canlaw.com/caveat/copy of defamation.htm You can be held responcible for slanderous (arguably liablous) statements and know that in our grandfathers time, such disparaging statements would be considered 'beneath' most men.

OP, you really haven't given anywhere near enough information in order for anyone to help. We don't even know what type of projectile you're using, never mind the caliber...and yes, it matters.
 
Its a Remington R1 1911 Centennial Edition .45 Auto.
I've had the feed ramp polished which remedied the problem for about 300 rounds.
I've used American Eagle and PMC straight from Cabela's. Haven't tried re-loads.
I religiously clean and apply a very small amount of oil to contacting metal parts after every visit to the range.
Not sure about the recoil spring weight.
Have two 7 round Remington mags that came with the pistol and have three 8 round Kimber mags. I've tried a friends MecGar 7rnd mags while having problems and nothing changed in the performance.
The problem is feeding the first round, and sometimes the second (only far rarer for the 2nd to jam)
Works fine with 5-6 rounds in the Remington mags (rare jam on first round with 6 loaded) and flawless with 7 rounds in the 8 round Kimber mags.
I have a working knowledge of the gun, but do not have the confidence to take a dremel to it. Anything more than dismantle, clean, assemble is beyond my skill set.

*Edit* Gravel didnt care. Tried to blame me. I watched a dozen videos before I attempted to strip and clean it to avoid making a newb error. I end up taking my Glock 17 out 99% of the time to avoid becoming pissed off and ruining my day at the range struggling with this issue. Too bad, I really love the boom of the .45. And it looks so sweet.
 
Are you seating the rounds in the magazine? Try to ensure the top (1st) round is pointing up (like 45 degrees {\} rather than 90 degrees {-}). You're using high quality mags and different ones...and Ball Ammo so these aren't the issue IMHO.

Have you always used these mags? If you were using different mags, then polished the ramp (and got the angle wrong) and upgraded the mags you'd be solving one problem and introducing another at the same time...don't do this. Make small incremental changes that make sense to rectify a problem and only one at a time.
 
I know you may think you have ruled out the mags, but I agree with mad cow. I find that for my 1911's almost all reliability issues I've had have been
mag related. Mag spring tension or any thing that causes the follower to angle badly can cause all sorts of headaches. BTW no connection to the Gravel agency.
 
Firstfishman said:
Its a Remington R1 1911 Centennial Edition .45 Auto.
I've had the feed ramp polished which remedied the problem for about 300 rounds.
I've used American Eagle and PMC straight from Cabela's. Haven't tried re-loads.
I religiously clean and apply a very small amount of oil to contacting metal parts after every visit to the range.
Not sure about the recoil spring weight.
Have two 7 round Remington mags that came with the pistol and have three 8 round Kimber mags. I've tried a friends MecGar 7rnd mags while having problems and nothing changed in the performance.
The problem is feeding the first round, and sometimes the second (only far rarer for the 2nd to jam)Works fine with 5-6 rounds in the Remington mags (rare jam on first round with 6 loaded) and flawless with 7 rounds in the 8 round Kimber mags.
I have a working knowledge of the gun, but do not have the confidence to take a dremel to it. Anything more than dismantle, clean, assemble is beyond my skill set.

*Edit* Gravel didnt care. Tried to blame me. I watched a dozen videos before I attempted to strip and clean it to avoid making a newb error. I end up taking my Glock 17 out 99% of the time to avoid becoming pissed off and ruining my day at the range struggling with this issue. Too bad, I really love the boom of the .45. And it looks so sweet.
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From what I am reading, the problems arise from when the mags are loaded and compressed tightly.

The mags you have tried so far are average at best, try to see if you can borrow a few Wilson or shooting star ones and see if it still causes the FTF. (I can bring some for you to test if you like). If this solves your problem then you know its magazines.

The second possibility is you recoil spring, for the 45 ACP 5” the spring weight should be 15-18.5#'s, the spring could be warn or incorrect. When the slide comes back and then moves forward to strip a round from the magazine, it is only catching the top portion of the base of the round. The round will want to nose dive away from the force at the back. Your recoil spring, follower, and bullets on top of the follower are supposed to keep the round slighty nose up and prevent a nose dive long enough until the round comes in contact with the feed ramp.

Probably the number one feeding problem in 1911s will be magazine related. Within that group, it may be spring tension, follower shape or follower condition, or problems with the magazine's feed lips. Its always good to mark or number your mags so you can log issues with them.
 
Totally sounds like a weakened recoil spring. It's only a few $ for a new one, or borrow one from a friend and try it out. I like 18lb for hardball loads. Guarantee this is your problem. The ejector has nothing to do with feeding from the mag.
 
Gunsmiths and mechanics you are best to just learn to do it yourself, if the warranty gunsmith put a idiot scratch in your gun and blames you send a letter to Remington describe to them how you disassemble it and how you made sure to learn first, sounds like this slob will just scratch the next one, send pics.
 
Damn. I was really hoping that the issue would be easier than just keep buying mags until I find ones that work.... Anyone want to buy a load of slightly used 1911 .45 Auto mags in a few months? LoL

Thank you for all the info Everyone. I really appreciate it.
 
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