Not allowed to sell any IVI components anymore on the EE? Why?

Chuckbuster said:
I don't know as I never looked. I'll have to check that when I'm home. However, a lot of the brass now sits either in a brass bucket, or reloads.

ETA: Okay...the year on the headstamp is '76.
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It is entirely possible to have true Canadian Army surplus ammo from a period of prior to 1992. Even up to 1994 being conservative and possible/greyish.

But I'm telling anyone reading/following this thread:

If anyone out there anywhere is trying to sell you any ammo, live/loaded or bulk pieces of once fired Small Arms brass marked IVI from years post 1994 and especially into the 2000's, there is no way they legally obtained that ammo/those casings or they are in direct breach of Federal contract agreement with which they entered. IVI/General Dynamics also stopped selling ammunition to any civilian organizations around the same time producing all small arms direct for DND and larger calibers under their subsidiary Canadian Arsenals.

The CF stopped selling surplus ammo to the civilian populace in the early 90's and any and all spent IVI casings from that same period on would have been shot on a military or LEO range and then removed unlawfully without being returned to an Ammunition Salvage section for screening and then concurrent actions to sell it to a company cleared by DND to bid on bulk small arms ammunition salvage ie spent cartridge cases by weight/cardboard triwall. Part of the contract that any of these businesses abide by when they purchase said salvage items is that they will not be resold in any way shape or form to be used as their intended purpose and are to be smelted or further broken down for other manufacturing purposes.

It is entirely possible that people are lawfully in possession of IVI ammunition loaded and cartridge cases spent PRIOR to 1994 (to be fully sure). It may even be possible that a few cases with more recent head stamps could have been left behind if the CF used a firing range for some odd reason that civilians also used and neglected to pick up all their salvage. But in large hundred and thousand casing bunches? No.

If there is anyone on this forum or anyone on this forum who is aware of anyone who falls outside of these parameters I'd really like to be made aware of the way they became lawfully in possession of them or how they are lawfully reselling post 1994 munition salvage to the public for reloading purposes. No names, hell PM me if you want, I'd be very curious to find out I'm wrong on this.

I'm 99.9% sure of this, if I'm wrong someone please re-educate me.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter but you get the idea and I get where CGN is going on this one entirely.
 
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Yeah, not to sound like an a$$ kisser, but I think the mods are attempting to protect us from ourselves. It's a privately owned forum, and if they suspect there could be illegal activity afoot, then they have every right to shut it down. Protects them, and us.
 
burnt_servo said:
so I recently bought a some 303 brass marked " ivi 8z " , anyone have a idea when it was made .... not that my rifles will notice the difference ......
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If there is no year on the stamp it would be older commercial IVI stuff from anywhere between 1976 when Canadian Industries became IVI up to the mid to late 80's. 8Z could just indicate the load type.
 
who cares there is plenty of other places to advertise it (considering its legal)
 
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yomomma said:
Why bring this up now if it was "illegal" ten years ago....
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Maybe they weren't aware of it, allowing it simply because they didn't know. Seems like it would be easier to just not allow it rather than run the risk of allowing someone to have a place to sell ill gotten munitions salvage/DND government property.

It's not grey. It's black and white, noone is to be in possession of DND munition salvage other than contractors for the purpose of smelting it to manufacture other products, especially not some dude who happens to just have 5000 cartridge cases with post 1994 headstamps IVI with NATO interchangeability marks and is selling them to profit on a public site.

Also regarding the guy who found spent casings left from the Olympics, 1. the army should not have left it behind, that's on them and it's against policy completely. And 2. if you did take the stuff (I'm no lawyer here) but yeah I'd say you probably are in violation of possession of unscreened military munitions salvage/DND property even if it is because the Army is retarded and left it behind. I'd assume you should have turned it in/reported it to the nearest CF Base or Law Enforcement who would then contact the CF and have it picked up after which whoever left it behind would get a blast of s**t but again, you don't know any of this, so it is what it is.

Lets not forget, it's not just law abiding gun owners who frequent this site, the RCMP troll this site guaranteed. I assure you there are persons all over selling DND property including ammo and salvage. It happens all the time and is very common. More than three quarters of all the investigations I see are around this exact situation.

Either way, that's not an answer to my last question lol What major conspiracy theory do the rest of the people who are offended by this have? Someone please let me in on it :D
Shill accounts? Aliens? Bigfoot? Inter Dealer moderator trading scams of the third kind?
 
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Travis Bickle said:
It is entirely possible to have true Canadian Army surplus ammo from a period of prior to 1992. Even up to 1994 being conservative and possible/greyish.

But I'm telling anyone reading/following this thread:

If anyone out there anywhere is trying to sell you any ammo, live/loaded or bulk pieces of once fired Small Arms brass marked IVI from years post 1994 and especially into the 2000's, there is no way they legally obtained that ammo/those casings or they are in direct breach of Federal contract agreement with which they entered. IVI/General Dynamics also stopped selling ammunition to any civilian organizations around the same time producing all small arms direct for DND and larger calibers under their subsidiary Canadian Arsenals.

The CF stopped selling surplus ammo to the civilian populace in the early 90's and any and all spent IVI casings from that same period on would have been shot on a military or LEO range and then removed unlawfully without being returned to an Ammunition Salvage section for screening and then concurrent actions to sell it to a company cleared by DND to bid on bulk small arms ammunition salvage ie spent cartridge cases by weight/cardboard triwall. Part of the contract that any of these businesses abide by when they purchase said salvage items is that they will not be resold in any way shape or form to be used as their intended purpose and are to be smelted or further broken down for other manufacturing purposes.

It is entirely possible that people are lawfully in possession of IVI ammunition loaded and cartridge cases spent PRIOR to 1994 (to be fully sure). It may even be possible that a few cases with more recent head stamps could have been left behind if the CF used a firing range for some odd reason that civilians also used and neglected to pick up all their salvage. But in large hundred and thousand casing bunches? No.

If there is anyone on this forum or anyone on this forum who is aware of anyone who falls outside of these parameters I'd really like to be made aware of the way they became lawfully in possession of them or how they are lawfully reselling post 1994 munition salvage to the public for reloading purposes. No names, hell PM me if you want, I'd be very curious to find out I'm wrong on this.

I'm 99.9% sure of this, if I'm wrong someone please re-educate me.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter but you get the idea and I get where CGN is going on this one entirely.
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Holy crap... Talk about bureaucracy run amok! It's metal cylinders, ffs! f:P:
 
Thank you Travis Bickle, I appreciate your input into this thread.

As for the guys calling out a sponsor as the cause of this, you are wrong. WRT this forum being monitored, you would be right.

CGN doesn't crack down on stuff to be a bunch of party poopers, there's a valid reason for this decision on IVI, whether you see it or not.

Regards
Jay
 
firemachine69 said:
Holy crap... Talk about bureaucracy run amok! It's metal cylinders, ffs! f:P:
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It's spent casings/munitions salvage in the eyes of the government/CF/DND.

I don't know why it is the way it is. It just is lol

The main reason behind the tight control on munitions salvage (especially small arms cartridge casings) is that DND sells it as scrap to authorized contractors for manufacturing purposes. They make a lot of money doing this and it offsets the costs of purchasing new ammunition which eats up 1/3 of the total defense budget. That's one of the primary reasons.

It's metal cylinders, but it's government property metal cylinders the government owns and sells to make money back and buy new stuff. It's also metal cylinders the government probably doesn't want to end up reloaded and in the "wrong hands" and shooting innocent babies in Jane and Finch drive by's etc Fear monger, panic, over reaction, don't trust the law abiding public etc etc You know the bureaucratic drill my friends.

Imagine the CBC headlines after 9mm Ball CDN MK1 IVI cartridge cases (reloaded or not you wouldn't be able to tell at that point) are found downtown Toronto around the body of some dead innocent bystander gunned down in a drive by. It's preventative damage control even if it is far fetched.
 
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Travis Bickle said:
It's spent casings/munitions salvage in the eyes of the government/CF/DND.

I don't know why it is the way it is. It just is lol

The main reason behind the tight control on munitions salvage (especially small arms cartridge casings) is that DND sells it as scrap to authorized contractors for manufacturing purposes. They make a lot of money doing this and it offsets the costs of purchasing new ammunition which eats up 1/3 of the total defense budget. That's one of the primary reasons.

It's metal cylinders, but it's government property metal cylinders the government owns and sells to make money back and buy new stuff. It's also metal cylinders the government probably doesn't want to end up reloaded and in the "wrong hands" and shooting innocent babies in Jane and Finch drive by's etc Fear monger, panic, over reaction, don't trust the law abiding public etc etc You know the bureaucratic drill my friends.

Imagine the CBC headlines after 9mm Ball CDN MK1 IVI cartridge cases (reloaded or not you wouldn't be able to tell at that point) are found downtown Toronto around the body of some dead innocent bystander gunned down in a drive by. It's preventative damage control even if it is far fetched.
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And I wonder where they (the government/military) get the money to buy "their" metal cylinders....
 
Some good posts from Travis Bickle. Another reason munitions scrap and salvage is not sold to the public is that there is a level of liability if live ammunition is left mixed in. While there may not be any significant risk from small arms the CF's image could be harmed if live small arms got into the wrong hands or was used for some wrong doing. Another way to sensationalize the story. With other items there is more risk and unfortunately there have been fatalities due to material being deemed free from explosives not actually being FFE.
 
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