Noveske 16" Recon problems

Hamburgler

Hamburgler

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Nanaimo,BC
Hey all,so last week i received a very lightly used noveske recon 16" from a fellow CGN'er and wow ,super impressed with the rifle,very well made.Ive taken it out to the range three times now and have had issues twice.First time bolt wouldn't lock to the rear on empty mags,solved the issue by removing the BAD lever(second one that hasn't worked for me),second outing rifle was a tack driver and never missed a beat.Third time was today and twice i had the bolt not seat properly to the front.The bolt was about one inch from being seated to the front.

I opened up the rifle when i got home and heres what i found,some stuff im sure has little to do with this issue but seemed strange and some stuff that might be the culprit.

1.In the first is the gas tube that protrudes into the upper receiver,nothing special most ar's have em BUT mine is loose,as in i can push it side to side and up and down.I checked my cheaper norc ar and it was tight and i never remember a loose gas tube on my issued C7.Also when i opened the rifle up i found a small piece of what looked like broken yellowish metal(possibly off the gas tube?).So my first theory is that when the bolt is returning from the rear the gas tube ,being loose,moved over a tad bit and the bolt if getting hung up on it.

2.Second and third pic.In those pics you can see that the extractor spring on the right(noveske) is much shorter and looks broken,could this be affecting round pickup and halting the bolt?

3.Third odd thing i found was a "rough" metal ring on the inside of the front of the bolt carrier group.i repeatedly inserted the bolt and it was a bit hard to push all the way to the back.Like the gas rings are getting hung up.I check my norc bolt and saw none of that and it moved around super smoothly.

So whats your take on this mystery?

thanks



http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/hamburglerkt/Mobile Uploads/20150128_190640.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/hamburglerkt/Mobile Uploads/20150128_190600.jpg

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/hamburglerkt/Mobile Uploads/20150128_190545.jpg
 
Before you go any further, clean the upper, chamber and bolt and carrier and see if that fixes the problem. That rifle looks pretty cruddy inside, I can imagine what the BCG looks like.

As for the extractor springs, I don't have a Noveske BCG so someone what has one will have to speak up about that.
 
Did that the moment i got the rifle and after every shoot and re-lubed.on every outing i shout about 150 rnds,even if i hadnt cleaned it after one session or even all thats no reason for any FTF's on an AR
 
Correct -- your carrier has some damage internally - the spring is not the issue in that aspect - but probably should be replaced.

Your action spring may be worn out or incorrect if it will not chamber rounds ---

BUT - the main cause I believe is the burr in the carrier is impeeding the proper movement of the carrier and will bind when the bolt starts to cam locked.

Try a different carrier --
 
The gas tube moving around in the uppers is totally normal.
Both my Noveske uppers do this.
I have a couple of thousands of rounds through my 14.5" and my new one is brand new.

I have 2 Noveske carriers which I believe are made by CMT.
The extractor springs have the little rubber piece inside them like yours does.
The extractor springs measure 0.193". Mine have between 200 and 2,000 rounds through them.

Secondly that is not a rough metal ring you are looking at. That is further forward than the most forward point that the gas rings travel with the bolt assembled.
Assemble the bolt and open and collapse it and you should not feel and binding. If you do then there may be a problem.
To check the gas rings assemble the BCG and stretch the bolt so that it is extended. Stand the carrier on the bolt. The bolt shouldn't collapse under its own weight.
Push down on the tail of the bolt with light finger pressure and the bolt should collapse.

Here is a pic of the inside of my 2 carriers.
 
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Alright so i measured the extractor spring. 0.181
I assembled the BCG ,stood it on the bolt face and it did not collapse,tried collapsing it with light finger pressure and that worked.
I also measured the buffer spring as one member suggested and it was 10 9/16.

Id really like to try to sort this out and not ask for a refund because this rifle otherwise is great.But at the same time i hate paying tons for a product and having to put cash into it to make it work properly.

Good to know about the gas tube movement but its hard to believe that that amount of movement wouldn't cause an issue,the gas tube could be moved a little bit more than 1/16th in all directions.
 
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Hamburgler said:
Alright so i measured the extractor spring. 0.181
I assembled the BCG ,stood it on the bolt face and it did not collapse,tried collapsing it with light finger pressure and that worked.
I also measured the buffer spring as one member suggested and it was 10 9/16.

Id really like to try to sort this out and not ask for a refund because this rifle otherwise is great.But at the same time i hate pyaing tons for a product and having to put cash into it to make it work properly.
Click to expand...
I don't know how much experience you have with AR's other than your mention of having a Norc bolt to compare it to.
What are you using for ammo?
Are you running it wet enough?
Does the carrier slide freely in the upper?
Are your mags marked to identify if it is occurring with only 1-2 mags?
Are you using quality mags?
 
Im not an armorer by any means but ive shot ar's for about 12 years in the army and have come to understand the basics of their inner workings.

Ammo is 5.56 norc brass ammo
Running it well lubed,no soaked tho
Everything moves very well,including the bcg in the upper
I should have marked the mags but i neglected to do so,i will next outing.
Mags being run are good quality steel mags and pmags
 
Hamburgler said:
Im not an armorer by any means but ive shot ar's for about 12 years in the army and have come to understand the basics of their inner workings.

Ammo is 5.56 norc brass ammo
Running it well lubed,no soaked tho
Everything moves very well,including the bcg in the upper
I should have marked the mags but i neglected to do so,i will next outing.
Mags being run are good quality steel mags and pmags
Click to expand...
For what its worth both my Noveske rifles are 100% reliable.
Is yours a Gen 1 or Gen 2?
I'm just throwing things out there in case something rings a bell.
What did it take to make the rifle run after the jam?
Ejecting the round in question?
Did the same round load when tried again?
Do your mags lock into place on a closed bolt?
 
So everything works perfect when you do it by hand? BCG moves freely by hand? Assembled it will close up on an empty chamber every time when you just let the bolt fly shut?

Is it only happening when there is an actual round going into the chamber? When this happens has the extractor grabbed the case? Or do you have to fish it out? Without a bcg does a round seat where it should easily?
 
For what its worth both my Noveske rifles are 100% reliable.
Is yours a Gen 1 or Gen 2?
I'm just throwing things out there in case something rings a bell.
What did it take to make the rifle run after the jam?
Ejecting the round in question?
Did the same round load when tried again?
Do your mags lock into place on a closed bolt?
Click to expand...

Appears to be gen 1
To make the rifle run again i pulled on the cocking handle at which point it ejected the round.I examined the round and found only that the bullet had vertical striations from top to bottom so the tip must have smashed into something and gotten scratched.
I moved the round in question off to the side for further examination later on and brought it home so there wasnt any chance it caused the second FTF
Mags all lock on a closed bolt.

So everything works perfect when you do it by hand? BCG moves freely by hand? Assembled it will close up on an empty chamber every time when you just let the bolt fly shut?

Is it only happening when there is an actual round going into the chamber? When this happens has the extractor grabbed the case? Or do you have to fish it out? Without a bcg does a round seat where it should easily?
Click to expand...

Everything moves freely and closes up well.Yes its only happening when theres a round being loaded and yes it seemed to have grabbed the round because when i pulled the cocking handle it ejected the round

Ill try using different mags next time out and note which mags it happens with
 
Hamburgler - another suggestions above what we exchanged in PM.

Try cycling a round (the safetysally will say to use snapcaps!) slowly to see if it catches on anything. Look and see if the bolt catches the round properly and if that said round snags on anything on its way in.

If for some reason the mag catch is every so slightly out of specs then the mag would ride higher in the magwell and consequently, the round could snag on the mag lip (or else) and slow it just enough to not cycle and seat properly. I had that issue with 1st gen ATRS mags where the front and back mag lips would be slightly too high & V-shaped. Shaved them down & into a U-shaped and the problem was solved.

Considering the -20/25 it's been in Ottawa for the past few weeks, what type of oil are you using?
 
First problem : ammo.
Second check your gas block. Was trying to see a picture of that carbine but you only have your Norc.
Bolt problems and Norc ammo are well documented here, before anything get a PMag and some cheap AE 5.56 and see if your problem repeats.
 
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