Novice Reloader - IMR 7828 and 8mm Mauser

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knotking

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Hello all,

Before I go "ballistic" and slam a local merchant for succeeding in taking advantage of a customer at the expense of sales, I'd like to get some information and get pointed in the right direction.

I have a RC K98 and have great fun at the range firing factory ammo but it comes at a cost. I got into reloading as for reasons many do. So, off I go researching, reading and get some reloading gear. Clearly I made some errors in not knowing in advance which powders and bullets would be ideal.

Fair enough.

Is there any reloading data for reloading 8mm mauser using IMR 7828 powder and Hornady 195 GR SP bullets?

In my "Noslers Reloading Guide" (7th Edition) and numerous online guides (including some in the forums here) there is none. In fact, most are not recommending this slow burning powder as it's more suitable for some magnum caliber.

Before waste the gas and time to square off some sales-people in Nanaimo, I'm interested in if this powder can be used for reloading this cartridge and a recommended source for looking it up.

Cheers

Edit: I fully understand "buyer beware" but when it comes to reloading I fully expect merchants to be knowledgeable when safety is at stake.
 
Obviously the fellow who sold the 7828 to you knows less about reloading than you do!
IMR7828 is not the powder to be used perhaps 4895 / 4320 / 4064 would be better suited to the 8X57.
RC
 
knotking said:
Edit: I fully understand "buyer beware" but when it comes to reloading I fully expect merchants to be knowledgeable when safety is at stake.
Click to expand...

i don't expect anything from a gun store merchant and i would hope no one else does when it comes to reloading unless you know them personally to be a reloader. it's up to the buyer to read and figure out if putting x amount of x brand of powder is a safe load or not. your in charge of your safety, period.


if i'm loading for a new calibre i look at the powder manufactures websites for load data and bullet weight info as well as my reloading manuals.

just saying...
 
The good news is that you cannot double charge the case.

The bad news is that you can't even get in the proper single charge.

Can you take it back? If so, you want a powder between 4895 and 4350 in speed.

If not, you can use the powder. Fill the case to the bottom of the neck, and seat the bullet long, so it touches the rifling firmly. You will get around 2200 fps.
 
Preaching to the converted. Yes, I do know less about reloading but not scared to ask.
I will gladly take those barbs above ground any day.

From the guides I have been looking at and "Rockchucker" hit closer than posted so far at 4895 / 4320 / 4064. I checked the hodgdonreloading.com and found the same lack of info.

I also checked
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar99.htm, which was the nail in the coffin. A great explanation IMHO.

An interesting site on reloading with a simple table was http://stevespages.com/323_12_200.html which pinpointed my choices the best.

Like I wrote, I was hoping to avoid going up there to exchange it but it's looking that way. I think I started out fine, have kept a log of all my purchases, with receipts, and have a decent guide to start.

Thanks for your time Ganderite but I think I will play it safe and stick to what's printed, at least to start off.

Cheap lesson learned I think, the right tool for the right job.
 
Taking it back will allow you to get a more suitable powder. Any idea what they have in stock?

Take this list. In no particular order, any of these will make good loads for you.

BLC2, H335, Win 748, H380

4895, 4320, 4064, 4350

Varget, RL15
 
Good list Ganderite. I will take that and the reloading guide with me. Should've done that first but I didn't understand the whole reloading process fully and how different guides are laid out.

I also incorrectly surmised that powders perform the same function and should not vary that much - but that is clearly wrong.
Many different powders with a vast range of performances. Easy mistake to fix and I will correct that one right away.

Much appreciated on the help thus far. A little wobbly at first as usual but I will get there.
 
Ganderite said:
Taking it back will allow you to get a more suitable powder. Any idea what they have in stock?

Take this list. In no particular order, any of these will make good loads for you.

BLC2, H335, Win 748, H380

4895, 4320, 4064, 4350

Varget, RL15
Click to expand...

I saw 4064 on their website as in stock but none local in the rest. I think 4350 is avail online but I will be making a personal visit today.
 
Alls well that ends well.
Made it up to Nanaimo to explain my situation and the store did the right thing. I showed them the reloading guide and a couple of online refs such as Hodgdon.com for the 8mm Mauser.

They exchanged the IMR 7828 for Hodgdon H4895 and gave a $17 store credit.

I verified it at http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle, so it should be good to go.

Lesson is never be in a hurry and double check what I need.
 
This forum has a wealth of info bug I will bookmark some of the suggestions here. This time of year it seems a lot of sporting good places are out of stock or in between restocking. Lots of blank sections in this store on many things to do with reloading.

Thank you all for the help here and hopefully it will prove useful to those thinking about getting into reloading in the future.

Cheers
 
knotking said:
This forum has a wealth of info bug I will bookmark some of the suggestions here. This time of year it seems a lot of sporting good places are out of stock or in between restocking. Lots of blank sections in this store on many things to do with reloading.

Thank you all for the help here and hopefully it will prove useful to those thinking about getting into reloading in the future.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Not even a day later. This is going to end up being a problem for myself as well.. been researching this for awhile, trying to find factory ammo or someone to make me ammo is a pain in the arse to say the least.
 
I asked about their IMR4064 up at Wholesale Sports Nanimo and they didn't have any in stock. In this day of arms length customer service I really wanted to address their communication level with a customer. I did mention on at least 3 times during the initial visit where I picked up the Lee 50th anniversary set, that I was reloading 8mm Mauser. That was further backed up by my order in the same session for the Lee 8mm Mauser Pacesetter Die set.

When I asked for a substitute they said their online records are all out of whack and said to phone before heading up or ordering. Ok, but not the best way to run an online setup. I'm sure they're improving as they are really pushing their salespeople to harp the online registration. I like their store, it has a good setup and they seem to normally have lots in stock. I guess it's the season before hunting and guys are getting ready so they're out of lots of items.

I also discovered that the primers sold to me are Federal 215, meant for magnum loads. I did finished my first reload group of 7 and it worked just fine.

Recipe:

Once fired Federal 7.92x57 JS brass
Federal 215 primers
Hornady 195 grain SP bullets
Hodgdon H4895 40.5 grain powder (Hornady Reloading Guide recommends starting load of 40.2 grain)
COL of 2.994 inches.

Jury is still out as I am no crack shot but the pointy end things went out the round hole after the bang and I have all my normal body parts. So a success.

Lesson other than already mentioned? There is a LARGE difference between g in grams and grn in grains on the digital scale display.... Good thing I double checked the weight of the first against a factory load.

There is something to be said for the "old-fashioned" scale.
 
most of the guys behind the gun counter don't reload. That also includes most guys who sell reloading supplies. At best, I found one guy in wss in Calgary that was proficient at reloading. most of those guys are there for a job. They shoot a little bit, and that's about it. Some reload one or 2 cartridges for plinking and that's about it... Best thing to have done would have been to open one of the reloading books, and look through it, or look at the online data on hodgedon's website...
Magnum primers seems to be good for the .25 caliber and above in my opinion..... Other's have different opinions...
In guns like the 8mm wartime mauser, it seems that the best accuracy can be found near the max load....
 
Those magnum primers will work just fine.

Welcome to reloalding.

It is a good idea to buy lots of stuff when it is available or when the price is right. I buy primers by the case of 5,000; and sometimes buy several cases at a time.
 
knotking, if you are serious about getting all you can out of your K98, take a look at the Norma reloading site.

They do list a few other powders besides their own for some cartridges and I seem to remember 7.92x57JS is one of them.

They tend to load just about everything close to maximum. They also expect you to know the bore diameter of your particular rifle.

Anyway, most people in North America keep their loads very light for the 8x57. You should have no trouble getting 2800+ fps with 150 grain bullets and 2700+ with 170 grain bullets. 200 grain bullets with 53gr N160 (very close to IMR 4350) and standard CCI 200 primers can be driven at 2600fps with appx 47,000 cup of pressure. All of these are very decent velocities. Rivaling the 30-06 in all weights.

The 7.92x57JS is one hell of an efficient cartridge. I have taken everything from gophers to large moose and elk with it. As long as your particular rifle's bore is in VG to EXC condition it can also be extremely accurate with good bullets.

Ok, now for the bad news. What is your bore diameter? I would presume you have the JS bore (.323in) barrel on your rifle. I have had bores on 98 model Mausers range from .321 to .325. Most are bang on .323. If your bore is on the large side, it may not be conducive to fine accuracy. If it is on the tight side, it may not shoot heavy bullets well. Those are just a couple of observations from my notes on over a dozen rifles I have reloaded for. Anything with a .323 bore loves bullets in the 200 grain class. Seems to be the perfect combination of variables the steps on the barrel were designed to stabilize.
 
That's good info once again Ganderite. I have noticed that there is a run on for the reloading items.

For Amosfella: I am no expert of course but do I necessarily need to know the velocity of my rounds? I am saying that knowing deep down I can only go so far unless I know as many factors as possible. In my gut I felt the initial load of 40.5grn of H4895 was a very good run. I made a batch of 20 using the same setup and will evaluate this weekend. My K98 and I are still in the honeymoon phase as I have only put about 80 rounds through it so far. Trying to isolate my bad habits from the rifles design is a challenge but that's why I love the sport.

For Bearhunter, I will have to digest. I will recheck the barrel as it's been quite awhile since I measured it but pretty sure it was right on .323, maybe .322". I have checked quite a few reloading sites since then and now own 3 reloading books, one of them an ebook off ITunes/IBooks. You posed some interesting figures and I will look into this further.

More to follow.
 
I don't use a chrony at all, with the exception of some just curiousity from when I loaded some rounds till pressure signs and then backed them off a bit... I don't even own a chrony, I just borrowed a friend's. Some folks here swear by them, but I don't see the use and in general think that it just confuses issues... The reloading methods talked about by another guy here are similar to what I use in many cases. On bedded barrel rifles, I'll push the loads will there are pressure signs, then back the load off about 3%, then find an accurate load in that range with target testing. Your gun, if it's factory will have a bedded barrel. Some guys swear by regular primers for that gun, other use magnum primers. I find that magnum primers leave less unburned powder in the barrel... I like getting 100% loads. If you have any doubt, make a few bullets with partial case loads, and do the following... Load a cartridge, and point the barrel upwards, and shake it before firing, then load the second cartridge, point it at the ground, and shake it, and aim at the same point at a target at least 100 yards away... have a couple extra with the same load. Rinse and repeat. You should see 2 distinct groups form on the target...
It's my unprofessional opinion that many of guys' reloading issues, and accuracy issues are caused by that simple factor alone.
Also, carry a powder burn rate chart and a powder volume chart...
Get Ken Water's Pet Loads. Both volumes. Read through the articles, even if you're not interested in the cartridge type. The load development process that he talks about will help you understand reloading more...
Starting with the starting load is not a bad idea. I have seen one or 2 guns where the starting load was too much...
If you only have open sights, and no aperture sights, scope, etc, be happy if you can put them all into a pie plate at 100 yards and match the sight distance designations on the elevator...
 
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