Now field result photos from Ballistic Coefficient - Federal Trophy Tip 7mm 140 gr ?

[savagelh]

I couldn't remember who else was working these up. Same cartridge here of course. Interesting thought of acting more like a partition. I guess both of us can compare notes at the end of season. I'll post the results when all is said and done at the range. I too look forward to the results.

Varget is my go to powder for many good reasons.

In this situation I am trying VV540 due to shared insight (EE ; and others) that bottle to bottle VV powder is very consistent. It's clean, (comparable or better than Varget) producing good groups and velocity, meters really well in the thrower I have, and marginally better in price believe it or not for myself. I realize I may have pigeon holed myself a bit with powder selection, but if all works well, I'll stock up. I have a couple of Kg's now.

Good luck hunting LH!

Dave, Cheers!

Ron

Good luck to you as well. I had mine out on the weekend and got .5 moa out to 500y but I still think I might be carrying the 308 this year instead of the 7-08. Nothing wrong with the 7-08 I just like my 308 more. Probably because its a tikka.

 

[RonR]

Ron R. Thanks for doing all that work, They do look like a promising bullet. The 160's in my 280 and 7mm-08 shoot well. 4007SSC in the 7-08 and IMR4831 in the 280. I am sorry to say that I am unable to tell you how these bullets performed as it was the 165gr Sierra GameChangers that were in the gun at the time I decided to shoot my deer. What I Can Tell you about those Bullets is... " there are Real GAMECHANGER LOL". I cant say how they performed really as I never did recover any of the bullets. What I can tell you is the 1st shot was the bullet entered just in between his brisket and left shoulder and left a 4" Exit wound just infront of his rear left leg. The bullet travelled almost the full lenth of the deer before exiting. he turned and ran, 2nd shot went in behind the ribs and out the guts again. The Buck traveled 80 yards and piled up. Appon gutting the internals.. 1 lung, and all the other oragns were prettly much mush. The 1st shot was @ 210 yards and the 2nd was around the 260 mark. They left the muzzle @ 2655fps from my 7-08. OVer all from what I could dertermain is the bullet opened up inside the deer delivering pile of energy and then exited..


Now this spring I may be lucky enough to sneak away for a bear hunt with the 280 and have more results with that

Deer harvested! Well done.

I looked at these bullets and had they been in a 140 gr offering I would have bit, but for myself seem a bit heavy for what I am used to.

I am a bonded convert but I have to ask...did the bullets perform as you expected? Would you use them again? How do these compare to other cup and core bullets you've used?

If that bear hunt happens I'd be interested in knowing your conclusions, pm is ok.

Regards Josh
Ron

 

[RonR]

Good luck to you as well. I had mine out on the weekend and got .5 moa out to 500y but I still think I might be carrying the 308 this year instead of the 7-08. Nothing wrong with the 7-08 I just like my 308 more. Probably because its a tikka.

Nice work at 500!

I'll shoot this hunting load at 300 one day to see where it sits because that's what's easily available for us to shoot at. For myself that's the "up to" distance I am comfortable with the rigs and optics we have for hunting.

In the background for myself is an SMK load that's got to be finished. If I can refine my skills and poke it out there 300 plus with satisfactory results it will support longer field shots.

Calibre don't matter, in my books. What's gonna work for a person does. I consider these to be kissing cousins anyways.

Good luck LH.

Regards
Ron

 

[RonR]

Had to share some field results. After breaking my leg pretty bad last year, missing the traditional white tail trip, and a year of personal s&^t to overcome, this years success has the added bonus result of a well performing bullet.

I will have to search back in my data regarding velocity values from the magnetospeed however this recovery was at about 40 yards. Slight quartering to me, chest shot about 28" of penetration, ending up in the end of the muscle tissue against the hide at the start of the hip muscle assembly. Tenderloins on the inside are perfect and no shrapnel from bullet jacket on any ribs. Lung messed up, dropped in it's tracks. "Cleanest" non meat loss harvest ever.

Not ashamed to share it's my first drop right there kill.

Scale results shown at about 127 and a half, expansion at largest point about .725 with caliper. We all can do the math.

I have been a bonded convert for a while now, but for our field results, move over Accubond, Trophy Bonded is right beside you in my books.

Regards
Ronr

 

[bearhunter]

I would say that's pretty impressive performance.

It's almost point blank range, where the velocities are as fast as they're ever going to be.

If a bullet holds up that well under those conditions, which happens a lot more often than most like to admit, that impresses the hell out of me.

 

[todbartell]

great terminal performance

 

[Joel]

Lol, Ron. I have several 7mm rifles. A 7mm Rem Mag and 3 - 7x57's [700 Classic, 1893 Mauser and a M70 Featherweight]. I am thinking the 140's will work well in the 7x57 rifles, and possibly will be tough enough to use in the 7 mag as well.
I acquired over 100 of these bullets, so will wring them out and see what they work like. Obviously, I'm not abandoning my 30 cals. [or my 6mms, 257, 6.5, 270, 8mms etc] Dave.

Be careful if you start loading without engaging the old brain first like I did. Federal goofed on their website and listed the COAL for 7x57mm with a 140 grain TBT as 2.800". Like an idjit i set my seater die for it and then...aw hell

They musta used a 7mm-08 COAL without lookin.

I'll just use my rifle as the seat die and bump back 50 thou past that to start with.

RonR, thanks for posting the great pictures and info and good hunting!! That is exactly why I switched to the TBTs right there.

 

[RonR]

Be careful if you start loading without engaging the old brain first like I did. Federal goofed on their website and listed the COAL for 7x57mm with a 140 grain TBT as 2.800". Like an idjit i set my seater die for it and then...aw hell

They musta used a 7mm-08 COAL without lookin.

I'll just use my rifle as the seat die and bump back 50 thou past that to start with.

RonR, thanks for posting the great pictures and info and good hunting!! That is exactly why I switched to the TBTs right there.

Hey Joel...just to share...I am at -.020.



Regards,

 

[RonR]

I would say that's pretty impressive performance.

It's almost point blank range, where the velocities are as fast as they're ever going to be.

If a bullet holds up that well under those conditions, which happens a lot more often than most like to admit, that impresses the hell out of me.

great terminal performance

I didn't fathom these responses earlier. 20-20 hind sight reflection... I'm glad I posted something you guys found interesting. I found this too good to not share.

Best,
Ron

 

[Joel]

Hey Joel...just to share...I am at -.020.



Regards,

Thank you RonR!

Some of what I read and saw in other forums (Besides picture perfect mushrooms like yours and well over 80% weight retention, yours is above 90!) is that they liked being seated deeply, like a Barnes bullet. I was thinking it was because of the solid shank end. Every rifle is probably its own individual critter though! So if being deep doesn't work I'll remember yours shoots a lot closer to the lands

I wanted the extra insurance of some lead up front so I feel better about bullet expansion being fast, but not losing almost half a bullets worth in the meat like a Partition...although they kill well! This seemed like a great compromise.

Cheers!

Joel

 

[savagelh]

Great results Ron. I was also able to recover one of these pills this year. I used my 43gr varget load on a big bodied bull moose (aren't they all). The first shot was at approx 130 yards and I hit him square in the elbow knuckle right below the scapula. For those that dont know, that's the biggest chunk of bone on a moose. The bullet totally destroyed the knuckle and then stopped on the on side rib so it didnt actually make it into the vitals. When I got up to him he was standing about 20' into the bush facing me so the next shot was a frontal shot where the neck meets the ribs. This shot killed him in fairly short order. That bullet also didnt exit but I was unable to find it in the gut pile. There was significant damage done on both shots. The bullet I did recover weighed 112gr. It wasn't a perfect mushroom but it did hold together well considering the impact on the bone. I have no doubt that if I had hit a couple inches back from the knuckle that I'd would have penetrated into the lungs. I'll try to post a pic shortly.

 

[savagelh]

 

[todbartell]

hit him square in the elbow knuckle right below the scapula. For those that dont know, that's the biggest chunk of bone on a moose. The bullet totally destroyed the knuckle and then stopped on the on side rib so it didnt actually make it into the vitals.

I've seen a 180gr Accubond from a 300wm hit this big joint on a large elk at not make it past too. If I didn't see it I would of not believed it could happen. Approx 2500 fps impact

 

[savagelh]

I've seen a 180gr Accubond from a 300wm hit this big joint on a large elk at not make it past too. If I didn't see it I would of not believed it could happen. Approx 2500 fps impact

Wow. Here I was thinking if I had used my 7mm rm that I wouldnt have needed a second shot. Maybe that's not the case...

 

[RonR]

Thank you RonR!

Some of what I read and saw in other forums (Besides picture perfect mushrooms like yours and well over 80% weight retention, yours is above 90!) is that they liked being seated deeply, like a Barnes bullet. I was thinking it was because of the solid shank end. Every rifle is probably its own individual critter though! So if being deep doesn't work I'll remember yours shoots a lot closer to the lands

I wanted the extra insurance of some lead up front so I feel better about bullet expansion being fast, but not losing almost half a bullets worth in the meat like a Partition...although they kill well! This seemed like a great compromise.

Cheers!

Joel

Exactly my thoughts. I have also read about the jump required for the monos but started programing with these as if they were lead hearted.

I don't know if there is a better option bringing the two ways of thoughts together. (mono and lead core) My results are just one example. Obviously there are many others which are positive and negative experiences for hunters but again...this was better than expected. On one hand I am surprised that this came from my reloading bench. The entry was so small - no blood at entry point - , the damage so significant inside, and no gaping exterior trauma/exit on this one example.

Great results Ron. I was also able to recover one of these pills this year. I used my 43gr varget load on a big bodied bull moose (aren't they all). The first shot was at approx 130 yards and I hit him square in the elbow knuckle right below the scapula. For those that dont know, that's the biggest chunk of bone on a moose. The bullet totally destroyed the knuckle and then stopped on the on side rib so it didnt actually make it into the vitals. When I got up to him he was standing about 20' into the bush facing me so the next shot was a frontal shot where the neck meets the ribs. This shot killed him in fairly short order. That bullet also didnt exit but I was unable to find it in the gut pile. There was significant damage done on both shots. The bullet I did recover weighed 112gr. It wasn't a perfect mushroom but it did hold together well considering the impact on the bone. I have no doubt that if I had hit a couple inches back from the knuckle that I'd would have penetrated into the lungs. I'll try to post a pic shortly.

Moose in the freezer. Well done!

Just spit balling here, and I am far far far away from any ballistics expert, but in my minds eye … my belief is that when a bullet exits from an animal it is energy that is not fully applied to the desired result with respect to a quick kill. Whether the damage is hydraulic or hydrostatic the bullet remaining inside the animal is energy that has been fully transferred inside the animal and not outside the animal. This bullet seems to do this well and keep my butcher knife less busy as a pleasant by product.

In case anyone is interested the recipe was Lapua cases, 41.3 gr VV N540, F210 primers. Varget and Accubond was the previous go to load which also worked well but not quite like this. I don't have the quick load ? <sp> application but someone running numbers it would be of interest, at least for myself.

Regards everyone.
RonR

 

[Joel]

Just to add one more update here...

None of this is very conclusive but I was a lot more interested in getting some meat in the freezer without a lot of time to do it than a really good bullet test.

Loaded up some 140 grain TBT bullets in 7x57mm PPU cases to the top cannelure with IMR 4831. Used the recipe on the Federal website. They shot 3 pairs (2 shot groups, I know, don't mean anything but the idea was zero a scope, not test accuracy) of under 1" and one of just over 1" at 100 yards.

Performance on a small spike buck was that it entered just behind one shoulder, exited through the other shoulder, and dropped him on the spot. Holes indicated expansion but not absolutely destructive.

It was of course not found.

All in all I am liking what I have so far although killing a spike buck is hardly something that will stress a bullet, I like what i see out of it more than a regular cup and core bullet at similar speed for sure. Didn't have that huge circle of bloodshot meat and fragmentation to cut away if you know what I mean. Mind you from the 18.5" barrel of a Ruger 77 RSI speed was probably only 2600 fps, this 140 grain bullet at 2600 FPS should do any job that needs doing.



RonR: In regards to energy and killing game, I used to feel the same way. I wonder now though, if like in ballistics gel (I know gel is not an animal and we are not hunting free range, organic blocks of gel!) that the energy is really spent in like the first foot of impact or so and what follows afterward is a bullet drilling a frontal area sized hole as it continues? Like a big football shaped damage area followed by a skinny neck as the bullet continues to penetrate at a speed of much less than the 2200 FPS or so needed to cause rifle bullet type explosive damage?

IF that is the case, then I would rather like to have the exit hole that lets the cold air in and the hot blood out...especially if I have to track.

But hey put em where it counts and thats minimal either way right? Cheers!

 

[RonR]

Just to add one more update here...

None of this is very conclusive but I was a lot more interested in getting some meat in the freezer without a lot of time to do it than a really good bullet test.

Loaded up some 140 grain TBT bullets in 7x57mm PPU cases to the top cannelure with IMR 4831. Used the recipe on the Federal website. They shot 3 pairs (2 shot groups, I know, don't mean anything but the idea was zero a scope, not test accuracy) of under 1" and one of just over 1" at 100 yards.

Performance on a small spike buck was that it entered just behind one shoulder, exited through the other shoulder, and dropped him on the spot. Holes indicated expansion but not absolutely destructive.

It was of course not found.

All in all I am liking what I have so far although killing a spike buck is hardly something that will stress a bullet, I like what i see out of it more than a regular cup and core bullet at similar speed for sure. Didn't have that huge circle of bloodshot meat and fragmentation to cut away if you know what I mean. Mind you from the 18.5" barrel of a Ruger 77 RSI speed was probably only 2600 fps, this 140 grain bullet at 2600 FPS should do any job that needs doing.

Yup. I know what you mean. That's why I am liking these most of all. It's only one harvest and one shot placement/situation but compared to other damage results, this is noticeably better. For others, I wouldn't hesitate to try if you have used bonded bullets.

RonR: In regards to energy and killing game, I used to feel the same way. I wonder now though, if like in ballistics gel (I know gel is not an animal and we are not hunting free range, organic blocks of gel!) that the energy is really spent in like the first foot of impact or so and what follows afterward is a bullet drilling a frontal area sized hole as it continues? Like a big football shaped damage area followed by a skinny neck as the bullet continues to penetrate at a speed of much less than the 2200 FPS or so needed to cause rifle bullet type explosive damage?

IF that is the case, then I would rather like to have the exit hole that lets the cold air in and the hot blood out...especially if I have to track.

But hey put em where it counts and thats minimal either way right? Cheers!

I get this as well. Agreed. On the ground and in the freezer.

Regards
Ron