Now its rust bluing! Done, pics up!!

mikeystew

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Im toying with the idea of having my BSA model 15 re-blued, because i just did a hand rubbed oil finish on the stock and it is now nicer than the rest of the gun...

Who would be the closest smith to Nanaimo BC who does it and roughly how much does it cost? also do the fees include prep work or is that something i'd have to do myself?
 
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Im toying with the idea of having my BSA model 15 re-blued, because i just did a hand rubbed oil finish on the stock and it is now nicer than the rest of the gun...

Who would be the closest smith to Nanaimo BC who does it and roughly how much does it cost? also do the fees include prep work or is that something i'd have to do myself?

Mike,

I don't have a specific recommendation on the Island, but I do know that most gunsmiths will give you a considerable discount if you do all the prep work yourself (i.e., so all they have to do is put your parts into the tank). I would think that if you do the prepwork you should be able to get the rifle reblued for < $60 given that these are the prices Epps charges for the full-package:

Bluing
Matte/bead blast finish: $175.00*
Medium polish finish: $225.00*
High polish finish: $300.00*

Note: Extra cost charged to remove pitting. Pricing available upon request.

====

If you have the time (you definitely have the inclination as I've seen some of your project work), I'd encourage you to look at rust blueing as an alternative. The traditional process is slow, but not that labour intensive after you've done the prep (which you'd have to do for hot blueing anyways). If you're interested, I also have a large bottle of Radocy's express blue, which would allow you to complete the rust blue in a couple of hours (6 or so cycles) -- if you'd be interested and drop by the Victoria area, you're welcome to help yourself to some of my solution. The most challenging part of rust blueing is finding or building a metal container large enough to hold the rifle and the boiling water --- most people weld up their own out of stainless sheet.
 
Shoot a PM off to CGN member Guntech.

Brentwood Bay area.

But really look into the Rust Bluing. More work, but a nicer look for what you have.

Cheers
Trev
 
rust bluing sounds interesting... can anyone explain the process in brief?

It's pretty simple:

1) Remove existing blueing
2) Draw file away any pits or deep scratches
3) Sand/polish to about 400 grit --- you can go higher, but rust bluing usually has a satin-like finish and doesn't benefit from an ultra polish. This step is where you have to take the most care to keep the surfaces flat, the edges sharp, and to avoid harming any stamping.

Up to this point, you've basically prepared the rifle in the same way that you'd have done for hot blueing.

4) Degrease the rifle very well. The parts should sheet any water. I like to wipe down with naptha and then soak the parts in hot water with Dawn detergent.
5) Apply the rust blueing solution per manufacturers instructions. This usually involves a clean cotton swab dampened with the solution and then gently and evenly wiped along the metal.
6) Place the parts in a protected, but open area where they will start to rust or use a rust box to accelerate the process. After a day, the parts will have a fine red rust on them.
7) Boil the parts for a minute or two in distilled/deionized water. This converts the red rust to black.
8) Gently card off the velvety black rust with degreased 0000 steel wool or a fine carding brush. This will leave a smooth, but slightly darkened surface to the metal.
9) Repeat steps 4-8 a half dozen or so times until the depth of colour is built up.

An express or belgian blue process is faster and achieves similar results on most metals. With express blueing, you degrease the parts, heat them in boiling distilled water, remove and dry the heated parts, apply the blueing solution, wait 5 or so minutes for rust to form, then boil and card. Repeat the cycles as needed to build the colour.

The most important steps to any blueing are metal prep and keeping the pieces free of grease/oil. It's a good idea to change the boiling water regularly to avoid contamination. Laurel Mountain Forge makes a slow rust blue that contains detergents that are supposed to cut through any risidual oil --- I have some, but haven't tried it as I've been 100% satisfied with the Radocy express blue.

Rust blueing has a lot of benefits for the hobbyist since, although the solutions are acidic, they are not as toxic/harmful as hot blueing salts. I don't know a lot about the history of BSA Martini's, but a lot of the older rifles had rust blued finishes, so the result may also be more authentic.
 
OK, im going the slow rust route... but what im curious about is the best way to protect the bore. i've heard about using dowels, but im thinking of possibly laquering the bore if it do-able. i really dont want to rust the bore on this thing.... makes me a little nervous.
 
protecting the bore

OK, im going the slow rust route... but what im curious about is the best way to protect the bore. i've heard about using dowels, but im thinking of possibly laquering the bore if it do-able. i really dont want to rust the bore on this thing.... makes me a little nervous.

All you need to look after the bore is after each boiling place the barrel ,wraped in a clean rag, in your vise and run a couple of clean patches through it. You will need a couple of "clean" cleaning rods,one at each end to serve as handles during the whole process . Laquer is very hard to remove as I have found out,,,,,not the answer!
 
There's no need to protect the barrel when rust bluing. The only parts of the rifle that actually rust is the parts where the bluing chemical is applied. My method is to degrease the bore, apply chemical, rust, boil, card. After the barrel is removed from the water, it dries immediately. After carding, I run a clean patch(using a degreased cleaning rod) through the bore to remove crud left from the boiling. I have blued quite a few rifles using this method and haven't had any bore problems.

An alternative is to coat the bore with lacquer prior to bluing then cleaning the bore with acetone at the end of the job. A lacquer soaked patch through the bore worked. It's all a pita.

Brownells will ship the Laurel Mtn Brown and Degreaser to Canada through regular mail. It is the only bluing product they will ship to Canada. There was a member on this site call Boss Hogg who market a rust bluing solution that did a very nice job on a number of my first projects.

A carding wheel isn't essential. Fine(0000) steel wool will work just as well but is slower.

IMO, a damp box is pretty much needed when rust bluing. It does't have to be fancy. Just a large cardboard box with a small hotplate and a pot of water will do. I like an relative humidity of about 85-90% and a temp of about 90-100 F will do nicely. With those numbers, I only need about 3 hours for a good layer of rust to form. At all costs, avoid condensation on the metal during the rusting. If RH gets up towards 100%, increase the heat in the box to reduce RH.

To boil the barrel action, a long skinny tank is needed. My first was a piece of aluminum rain gutter with the ends capped with gutter ends. I sealed with high temp silican and pop rivets. Worked fine. I like to boil for 15-20 minutes to ended the chemical reactions are complete. I think it helps get a nicer blue.

PS. That nice BSA Model D you sold me will soon be getting the full rust blue treatment.
 
Thanks for the tips guys.

I too have a BSA Model 15 that is going to be getting a full rust blue. Funny that this thread should come up, just had it out a couple days ago planning the full restoration. It is going to be a present for my son on his 18th birthday this summer.

Also just a note, if you need to recrown the muzzle, before bluing is a good time.....
 
Mauser98 you'll have to send me a before and after pic of that BSA model-d if you can. There is not much I enjoy more than rifle renovation... It ranks right up there with #### for visual stimulation in my books.

I have ordered the laurel mtn barrel brown and degreaser from brownells and i am now scrounging materials for the boiling tank. Thinking of goin the gutter route as I have some in the garage. How does the laurel mtn stuff work for you? Are there any important things to note when using it you may have learned through experience? I read somewhere about possible "coppering" problems if you rub it In too much.

Again... This site is awesome! I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions and feel like I'm getting a free, but priceless education every time I visit.
 
Mauser98 you'll have to send me a before and after pic of that BSA model-d if you can. There is not much I enjoy more than rifle renovation... It ranks right up there with #### for visual stimulation in my books.

I have ordered the laurel mtn barrel brown and degreaser from brownells and i am now scrounging materials for the boiling tank. Thinking of goin the gutter route as I have some in the garage. How does the laurel mtn stuff work for you? Are there any important things to note when using it you may have learned through experience? I read somewhere about possible "coppering" problems if you rub it In too much.

Again... This site is awesome! I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions and feel like I'm getting a free, but priceless education every time I visit.

I haven't used LM for my last few projects but I have had good success with it. The coppering isn't an issue if the product is applied in one pass. Do Not Rub!! My technique is to press a cotton ball over the mouth of the LM bottle and give a shake. I then squeeze as much solution as possible back into the bottle. The ball should be wet enough so that when applying, the metal looks wet but not so wet as to cause runs. I apply the solution in long, light passes down the barrel, trying not to overlap the previous pass.

The LM product contains a detergent that some claim reduces the need to throughly degrease the metal. This may be but I don't take the chance. I've had good luck with Mean Green but on a recent project I used a product called Castrol SuperClean engine degreaser. Wow. This will be my goto product from now on.
 
There is a good AGI video that covers blueing, including rust blueing.

There's also a book that is often recommended to people interested in learning how to blue firearms using traditional formulae:

http://www.amazon.com/Firearm-Blueing-Browning-Revised-Classic/dp/0811703266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298325199&sr=1-1#reader_0811703266

51zlboA6kCL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
 
What do you use Mauser if you don't mind me asking? I haven't dug around much but there dosent initially seem to be a wide variety to choose from for us Canucks. I have read that the LM brown is less toxic, and from experience that could suggest less effective than other options... But again, what would be the best option available to Canadians? I have a day to cancel my order If I can find something better.

Whatever the case I'm looking forward to this project! This gun's gonna be a beaut!
 
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What do you use Mauser if you don't mind me asking? I haven't dug around much but there dosent initially seem to be a wide variety to choose from for us Canucks. I have read that the LM brown is less toxic, and from experience that could suggest less effective than other options... But again, what would be the best option available to Canadians? I have a day to cancel my order If I can find something better.

Whatever the case I'm looking forward to this project! This gun's gonna be a beaut!

Currently I'm using a product called Gun Goddess from Half Moon Rifle Shop in Columbia Falls, Montana(406 892-4409). He won't ship to Canada so I had to make other arrangements to get some. I've used it in two rifles with great results.

But, I've also got great results using LM and from my reading, so have many others. I recommend you not cancel your order. http://http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown_inst.htm

As I mentioned in another post, Boss Hogg(member on this site) used to market a rust bluing product that he gets(got) from a fellow in Richmond, BC. This was the first product I ever used and I got some amazing results. Perhaps a PM to Boss

While the chemical used is important other factors are equally important and include proper metal prep, degreasing, proper boil water(distilled), correct rusting environment, etc, etc.
 
As I mentioned in another post, Boss Hogg(member on this site) used to market a rust bluing product that he gets(got) from a fellow in Richmond, BC. This was the first product I ever used and I got some amazing results. Perhaps a PM to Boss

Might be that the person making it in BC was a former CGN member. I had picked up a bottle of it from a guy in BC, maybe 6 years ago. Great stuff. Very concentrated, a little bottle will last a lifetime if you only do a couple rifles a year.

Another good website/forum to check is www.finishing.com
 
I read on the LM instructions about making a scalding tank out of PVC pipe... which leads to my next question, when boiling the parts after rusting, is it necessary to keep it at a rolling boil for the duration, or will submerging it in scalding/boiled water for an equal ammount of time work as effectively? I do not mind building a metal tank to put on a burner at all if it will yield better bluing... im just curious.

As a positive note, the air outside my shop has been over 80% humidity for a long time... I think the gulf islands are made for this kind of teatment.
 
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