NOW my #### WILL fall off... I just shot the TAVOR at Milcun Range

Sgt Striker said:
Why do you say that Barn??
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The best prone position with the Tavor is very much a non-traditional prone. No "off the elbows". Magazine on ground, left hand on ground, bottom of grip on left hand. Rifle just sits there. Weight is between the grip and your shoulder. You are not holding the rifle up. While there is a bipod available, I'm not sure it would make all that much difference. Use your left hand to adjust elevation. Lateral shifts are easy. The rifle is just so well designed that its configuration contributes to a steady hold in all positions.
When I first saw a photo of the rifle, I thought that the grip and the guard looked oversized and awkward. They're not. They are a very functional part of the design.
 
CanAm said:
Someone just needs to request the gun and we will send it. We don't arrange the shoots, we just supply the gun.
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How does requesting/renting it work? I would be interested in organizing something similar at the EOHC when I'm back down in Ottawa, sometime in the next three weeks.

Does it need to be an official match or can it simply be a small group of people?
 
Hungry said:
Yeah, the Meprolight 1X red dot (illum . by tritium) covered the FACE of the the 'running man' on the fig 11 or fig 12 target at 100m. Tiriaq reminded me that the red dot in this optic was 8 MOA give or take. Wow, how can anyone miss?

I would have liked to chat with the IWI (Israeli) Engineers and discuss modifying a Pic rail for the top of the TAVOR so that we operator wannabes can choose our own optics for whatever budget, mission, competition we find ourselves. :rolleyes:
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Hungry, I believe Canam posted that a flat rail was an available option !!

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1599696&postcount=556


If I don't buy one my #### will fall off, but not much hope of it not falling off if the GF finds me buying one.:confused:.... either way I am going to be a dickless dude, come to think about it.... what would be the point of a GF without a ####..... the rifle it is then :evil:
 
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I would like to see it come to calgary also....

I like the idea of it....

BUT

I will want to see it first before I commit any $$$ to this gun.

My one concern is this - I dont know if I want a 8 MOA Red-Dot... and it doesnt sound like there is much for options..... I have not seen any adapters (ARMS, Knights, ect) to mount a rail onto the top..... If that was alittle more workable I would be more excited about it. My understanding is that you can mount other optics, but there are 2 short 1913 rails to mount to (or are they proprietary?)... doesnt leave much 1913 room on the top.... you are commited to mounting/ring placement at their 2 spots...... and if the rails on the Tavor are counter-sunk at all how tough/able will it be to mount other optics?

Hungry said:
Druthers:

Yeah, the Meprolight 1X red dot (illum . by tritium) covered the FACE of the the 'running man' on the fig 11 or fig 12 target at 100m. Tiriaq reminded me that the red dot in this optic was 8 MOA give or take. Wow, how can anyone miss?

I would have liked to chat with the IWI (Israeli) Engineers and discuss modifying a Pic rail for the top of the TAVOR so that we operator wannabes can choose our own optics for whatever budget, mission, competition we find ourselves. :rolleyes:

Barney :evil:
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The top of the gas block system has a pair of integral dovetail blocks to which a rail can be attached instead of the M21 base. These are down inside the stock. According to the distributor, a base with universal rail is available which attaches to these dovetails. That should accomodate other sighting units. The Elcan, ACOG, etc. would not mount directly to the twin dovetails above the barrel.
I estimated the dot coverage of the M21 at about 8 minutes based on aiming at the square of a 100m C1A1 zeroing target. We primarily used Figure 11 targets for testing.
This is not an inexpensive rifle. It is obvious that buying one sight unseen is intimidating. This is why Canada Ammo making the demo rifle available for test is such a good idea. It also demonstrates his confidence in the product. It is not as if the rifle is being demonstrated by a company representative; the demo is being placed into the hands of strangers with no relationship or loyalty to the company, who have never seen or handled the rifle before. If there were shortcomings, they would be apparent, and would be made known. This isn't a case of a manufacturer supplying a gun during a company sponsored junket, so that a puff piece can be written for a newstand magazine.
 
Hi Hungry

I absolutely agree with you about ergonomics, it balances very nicely and is very easy to support in all shooting positions from prone to standing. I really would like to have a chance to play with one with different scope so I could check the full accuracy potential of rifle.
I agree with you about engaging bolt catch without magazine but I think it I just need some more practice. Disengaging on the other hand was absolutely intuitive and so were all magazine operations. Another thing I would like to know is the method of attaching barrel to receiver and how hard would it be to change barrels on it.
Obviously a lot of thought went into a design of this rifle and I was very impressed with it.
 
Don't the Israelis use a short scope mounted behind the M21 for precision work ? I'm sure there must be some sort of a mount on the thing somewhere, behind the factory optics.
 
There is a mounting provision directly behind the M21: a circular male dovetail and a self sprung snap latch integral with the housing.
At the Canadian Law Enforcement Games hosted at MilCun this summer, the Colt Canada representative demonstrated a small unit that mounts on a flat top AR upper directly behind a reflex sight.
 
At 1200 bucks for the 4X pocket scope, the optics are grossly overpriced. IWI does not make the optics. It is like buying eotech off colt. Everyone is going to pile in their 60% margin when the thing goes from .ITL/Meprolight warehouse to IWI shopfloor. It is very interesting that the M21 retails at 450 USD in the US. Once it goes through the hand of IWI, it becomes a 800 dollars optic. CanAm is our contributor and we appreciate their effort, but i must say that the prices from IWI for the optics is highway robbery.
 
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tiriaq said:
The best prone position with the Tavor is very much a non-traditional prone. No "off the elbows". Magazine on ground, left hand on ground, bottom of grip on left hand. Rifle just sits there. Weight is between the grip and your shoulder. You are not holding the rifle up. While there is a bipod available, I'm not sure it would make all that much difference. Use your left hand to adjust elevation. Lateral shifts are easy. The rifle is just so well designed that its configuration contributes to a steady hold in all positions.
When I first saw a photo of the rifle, I thought that the grip and the guard looked oversized and awkward. They're not. They are a very functional part of the design.
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Thanks very much! :D
 
greentips said:
At 1200 bucks for the 4X pocket scope, the optics are grossly overpriced. IWI does not make the optics. It is like buying eotech off colt. Everyone is going to pile in their 60% margin when the thing goes from .ITL/Meprolight warehouse to IWI shopfloor. It is very interesting that the M21 retails at 450USD in the US. Once it goes through the hand of IWI, it becomes a 800 dollars optic. CanAm is our contributor and we appreciate their effort, but i must say that the prices from IWI for the optics is highway robbery.
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My understanding is there there is no option to puchase one without the reflex site... this is correct? Otherwise the rifle will cost about 2200?

hp
 
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I checked the price of the M21 - they are currently about 450USD or so in the bigger online store. I have made correction to my post
 
The mandatory inclusion of the M21 as part of the package is not going to help sales. Apart from the price of the sight, it limits the utility of the rifle. While the combination is excellent for close range applications, the majority of potential buyers are going to want more versatility. A rifle with a universal rail, and no sight, at a lower price, would be a much easier sell.
 
Fellas, all those talks about optics - thats wrong gun for 24X scope. Bullpup means close combat or in hunting terms stalking. That in turn screams red dot or iron sights. I found M21 adequate if not natural choice for the gun.
 
Bullpup means compact with a longer barrel than a conventional carbine. Why put a sight on a rifle that is capable of long range performance which limits it to closer ranges?
No one is talking about a 24x scope; there are a variety of perfectly good sights that would allow the rifle to be effective at all ranges associated with service rifle shooting. The M21 is an excellent sight for close in, but it is useful only for short range. ACOGs, Elcans, et al, work at all ranges.
M21 may be rated at 5.5 minutes; my observations are based on the amount of target observed to be obscured by the dot.
 
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