NR pcc
- Thread starter AlexCorms
- Start date
Big bore dinosaur
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NORT OF COW.TOWN.EH
9mm
10mm
45 acp.
Good luck choosing just 1..lol
Thureon defence , aero TWN . Come to mind. Smith and Wesson looks nice 2
10mm
45 acp.
Good luck choosing just 1..lol
Thureon defence , aero TWN . Come to mind. Smith and Wesson looks nice 2
AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
Thureon defense is defunct I believe. No parts available as an FYI. The owner went to prison in South Africa for gun running as the story goes...not sure if it's true or not, but I know one of our club shooters cleaned the Canadian distributor out of parts a while back.
NR PCC, then you've got a ton of options, and I'd say none of them are "bad". They've all got pros and cons, depending on your needs and wants. I'd probably stick with 9mm unless you have a strong reason to do otherwise.
I personally recommend getting something cheaper first so you can learn for yourself things that you like and don't like about PCCs. Unless you're made of money, and have another $2k budget set aside for ammo, gas, and range fees.
I'm sure I've forgotten something but from the bottom, here's what I can think of that's commonly available:
HiPoint 995
KelTec Sub2000
Ruger PCC
S&W FPC
TNW ASR
JR Carbine
Freedom Arms FX9
Ruger PC is OK at everything. A default starting point, then find reasons why an alternative might be better for you.
Personally I'd recommend starting with the intent to buy two PCCs. One for plinker backcountry small carry (~$1,200), NR. One for action range competition (~$3,500), ideally R.
Separating it like this helps focus the selection criteria as there's minimal overlap. Whereas, if compromising the role, the options will begin to blur together and soon a 9lb 37" fully loaded "rifle" can be justified (to fire a pistol round!?!).
Have fun!
Personally I'd recommend starting with the intent to buy two PCCs. One for plinker backcountry small carry (~$1,200), NR. One for action range competition (~$3,500), ideally R.
Separating it like this helps focus the selection criteria as there's minimal overlap. Whereas, if compromising the role, the options will begin to blur together and soon a 9lb 37" fully loaded "rifle" can be justified (to fire a pistol round!?!).
Have fun!
Well, I have owned a bunch of PCCs, have kept some, have sold some, and all have had their pros and cons. I would also dare say that the standards by which each owner constitutes a pro and con would differ, sometimes widely.
The last one that I sold was the PC Carbine earlier this year. That one I thought I would never sell, but despite the impressive reliability of it, ultimately what prompted me to sell it was that the takedown to clean and such was onerous. Plus there are some parts in it that are just plain badly designed (shock buffer and c-clip, both of which you can get MCarbo replacements, which may or may not be widely available).
So to the Sub2000...like some people I bought it due to the novelty of the folding mechanism. That novelty wore off pretty fast when I saw some of the other shortcomings of this gun. I never liked both the position of the charging handle and how ridiculously stiff it was, even years later after keeping it locked back in my safe. Not sure if it was because mine was in .40 but it doesn't matter - for me, it was not something that endeared me to this. Sure, the big detraction was the fact that by the way it folds, you can't put an optic on it (I am aware that the Gen3 has remediated this issue, though in my view, the two stage way of folding it seems to be wrought with issues with something coming loose over time). For my Gen 2, the onboard sights were just awful, unless mashing my face into the stock and contorting my cheek was something I was going to accept. Several buddies tried it with their over the head ear muffs and it was uncomfortable at best and annoying at worst. Overall, the Sub2000 strikes me as one of those great idea/poor execution type of offerings. I do applaud them for trying to bring something different and innovative to the market. This was my first PCC and while it had a certain degree of sentimentalism, that in and of itself did not overcome the things that I did not like about it.
For those who say the takedown of the PC Carbine is not too bad (not sure why anyone would say that given that you need tools to take it down an the manual suggests a torquing pressure of 65 inch pounds - no, not a typo - on the main 2 screws), try an Freedom Ordnance FX9 - that for me sets the standard for ease of takedown for cleaning, particularly given how dirty a blowback gun gets. The ergonomics and controls are superb. The charging handle could be made bigger, but hardly a dealbreaker. But the FX9 has issues as well, insofar as some functionality issues with last round bolt hold open, buffer weight issues and ammo pickiness. Despite this, I still have my FX9 and would not even think of selling it. Besides, it's covered under a lifetime warranty, for which I have utilized (and can confirm that Wolverine does the repairs and they did a great job with mine). If you are going to use yours for in scenarios where you need to absolutely depend on it, try different kinds of ammo and mags to find out which ones the gun likes. It will differ for many people as to the optimal mating of ammo/mags.
The only other PCC I currently have is something that last year I did not consider buying, but after picking one up earlier this year, I love my Smith & Wesson FPC. Only downside (in my opinion) is aftermarket magazine support, which is pretty thin. Inserting a full OEM 10-rounder M&P9 mag on a closed bolt requires a substantive hard upwards tap to get it seated. This is part of the reason I have been looking for any other mags that may work just in case it is a magazine specific thing. The ONLY thing I don't like about it is the bolt catch/bolt lock mechanism. I have still not figured it out that little small metal piece, which seems to be inviting my thumb to get caught in some way. So I never use the bolt catch. Other than that, this thing is rock solid, and in my opinion, is FAR superior in almost every aspect to my Sub2000 which I previously had and I never got to the point where I was 100% happy with it. The folding mechanism works well and my red dot has kept zero pretty well. I don't think I have ever had a single issue functionally with the FPC - no feed issues, no jams, no stovepipes, etc. Cleaning it requires a couple of extra steps but pretty easy to do. Accuracy out of the box is superb. And while I shouldn't be a sucker for included accessories, I am - the soft bag that is included and the 3 x 10 round OEM mags are a great value add, though I am sure that the price point already factors that in. All in all, it is a great Robin to my FX9 Batman.
I have also owned the TNW ASR (takedown, but not much on it sold me, after the initial honeymoon period). I don't like these bolts that get locked back only when you turn it into a notch (Sub2000 was like this and I think the JR is as well).
Had and sold the Kriss Vector in 9mm (too bulky, vectoring system is redundant on a 9mm SA PCC) - aside from interesting aesthetics, not sold on it, so I sold it. I think there are some ammo limitations too which make it less appealing (I seem to recall the manual highly discouraged the use of +P ammo as it would cause significant wear to the parts). For a $2000 gun, you'd think it would be more robust than that.
I was in the market for a Hi Point 995 - I have heard a myriad of polar opposite opinions on it - the lifetime warranty is a compelling factor.
Something else to consider is maybe get a carbine length lever action like a Henry, and run .357 mag/38 spl. through it. This is also something I never thought I would buy but I bought my first this year and now have four. Sure it's not as tacticool as having scoped out and kitted out guns (you can put accessories on the Big Boy X), but as they come in carbine length, perhaps something to consider, albeit different.
The last one that I sold was the PC Carbine earlier this year. That one I thought I would never sell, but despite the impressive reliability of it, ultimately what prompted me to sell it was that the takedown to clean and such was onerous. Plus there are some parts in it that are just plain badly designed (shock buffer and c-clip, both of which you can get MCarbo replacements, which may or may not be widely available).
So to the Sub2000...like some people I bought it due to the novelty of the folding mechanism. That novelty wore off pretty fast when I saw some of the other shortcomings of this gun. I never liked both the position of the charging handle and how ridiculously stiff it was, even years later after keeping it locked back in my safe. Not sure if it was because mine was in .40 but it doesn't matter - for me, it was not something that endeared me to this. Sure, the big detraction was the fact that by the way it folds, you can't put an optic on it (I am aware that the Gen3 has remediated this issue, though in my view, the two stage way of folding it seems to be wrought with issues with something coming loose over time). For my Gen 2, the onboard sights were just awful, unless mashing my face into the stock and contorting my cheek was something I was going to accept. Several buddies tried it with their over the head ear muffs and it was uncomfortable at best and annoying at worst. Overall, the Sub2000 strikes me as one of those great idea/poor execution type of offerings. I do applaud them for trying to bring something different and innovative to the market. This was my first PCC and while it had a certain degree of sentimentalism, that in and of itself did not overcome the things that I did not like about it.
For those who say the takedown of the PC Carbine is not too bad (not sure why anyone would say that given that you need tools to take it down an the manual suggests a torquing pressure of 65 inch pounds - no, not a typo - on the main 2 screws), try an Freedom Ordnance FX9 - that for me sets the standard for ease of takedown for cleaning, particularly given how dirty a blowback gun gets. The ergonomics and controls are superb. The charging handle could be made bigger, but hardly a dealbreaker. But the FX9 has issues as well, insofar as some functionality issues with last round bolt hold open, buffer weight issues and ammo pickiness. Despite this, I still have my FX9 and would not even think of selling it. Besides, it's covered under a lifetime warranty, for which I have utilized (and can confirm that Wolverine does the repairs and they did a great job with mine). If you are going to use yours for in scenarios where you need to absolutely depend on it, try different kinds of ammo and mags to find out which ones the gun likes. It will differ for many people as to the optimal mating of ammo/mags.
The only other PCC I currently have is something that last year I did not consider buying, but after picking one up earlier this year, I love my Smith & Wesson FPC. Only downside (in my opinion) is aftermarket magazine support, which is pretty thin. Inserting a full OEM 10-rounder M&P9 mag on a closed bolt requires a substantive hard upwards tap to get it seated. This is part of the reason I have been looking for any other mags that may work just in case it is a magazine specific thing. The ONLY thing I don't like about it is the bolt catch/bolt lock mechanism. I have still not figured it out that little small metal piece, which seems to be inviting my thumb to get caught in some way. So I never use the bolt catch. Other than that, this thing is rock solid, and in my opinion, is FAR superior in almost every aspect to my Sub2000 which I previously had and I never got to the point where I was 100% happy with it. The folding mechanism works well and my red dot has kept zero pretty well. I don't think I have ever had a single issue functionally with the FPC - no feed issues, no jams, no stovepipes, etc. Cleaning it requires a couple of extra steps but pretty easy to do. Accuracy out of the box is superb. And while I shouldn't be a sucker for included accessories, I am - the soft bag that is included and the 3 x 10 round OEM mags are a great value add, though I am sure that the price point already factors that in. All in all, it is a great Robin to my FX9 Batman.
I have also owned the TNW ASR (takedown, but not much on it sold me, after the initial honeymoon period). I don't like these bolts that get locked back only when you turn it into a notch (Sub2000 was like this and I think the JR is as well).
Had and sold the Kriss Vector in 9mm (too bulky, vectoring system is redundant on a 9mm SA PCC) - aside from interesting aesthetics, not sold on it, so I sold it. I think there are some ammo limitations too which make it less appealing (I seem to recall the manual highly discouraged the use of +P ammo as it would cause significant wear to the parts). For a $2000 gun, you'd think it would be more robust than that.
I was in the market for a Hi Point 995 - I have heard a myriad of polar opposite opinions on it - the lifetime warranty is a compelling factor.
Something else to consider is maybe get a carbine length lever action like a Henry, and run .357 mag/38 spl. through it. This is also something I never thought I would buy but I bought my first this year and now have four. Sure it's not as tacticool as having scoped out and kitted out guns (you can put accessories on the Big Boy X), but as they come in carbine length, perhaps something to consider, albeit different.
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AlphaCharlieDelta
Member
- Location
- The Wet Coast
Here's my 2 cents, and feel free to give back change...
I have shot (not owned) almost every PCC on the Canadian market, and I'm one of those "research it to death before buying" kind of guys.
I currently own a Ruger PC Carbine that barely resembles a Ruger any more because its been TANDEMIZED! But even stock with a few key upgrades its a solid performed all round. It needs the bolt & extractor pins, the extractor, and the spring retention c-cup replaced (who makes mild steel and plastic stress point parts, come on Ruger). I ran the Ruger as an IPSC gun last season and it kept up fine. Lots of aftermarket support to tweak it.
I also own an FX9 and once you get it tuned with a new trigger, redo the buffer system (i recommend the "gentle recoil system" that blowback9.com recommends... so smooth), and plop an optic on it, and maybe a comp (see the 9mm comp thread if you dare....) she's good to go fast. Mag issues can be a problem, but magul 17 rnd G9's seem to run great. OEM Glock can be problematic unless you replace the springs, ETS and SGM mags work fine but can have LRBHO issues. I only use the bolt hold open on unloaded starts so the issues around it are minimal. Takes a lot of AR parts, so easy to tweak.
I have shot the three base iterations of the B&T (GHM9, APC9, SPC9) and they are all gorgeous... but not entirely unflawed. Their triggers are pretty gross out of the box and Elftmann is the only one that works in them apparently. Also, getting aftermarket parts is not great...especially at their price point. Two words ASSSS-PENSIVE!
I have also played around with the Raven 9. Great looking platform, well built...but with a few glaring inherent flaws. The firing pins break... A LOT, and you have to deal with Samuel the owner of Lockhart (deal breaker for me). For the price I would assume this to be the top dog... but it falls short. If they ever pull it together, not likely with Samuel, this thing is gonna be solid.
The S&W FPC is an awesome little gun... but mags are an issue. In fact its not lack of aftermarket mags, but insertion issues because of the size of the mags. I have seen issues with mags not going all the way in because of the stupid "sleeve", and that same sleeve is meant to prevent over insertion so if you remove them, BOOM, buried mag mid stage and having to strip it out... Its a range toy at best.
JR Carbine I owned one, I sold it. It's a solid gun, but you cant do a ton of customizing to the recoil system and they off gas a lot from the chamber (face full of soot sucks).
Kodiak K9... I've shot one. It was actually not that bad. A few things to change and upgrade...but not as bad as some of the Kodiak haters will lead you to believe. There is a guy in a Kodiak group on facebook that even figured out how to manipulate the recoil system to eliminate the feeding issues. I might actually pick one up to see if I can make er' fast!
TWN Aero is a good bush gun in the take down, and it comes in different calibers. Great plinker, but that's about it. Again if blows a lot of stuff back at your face, and aftermarket support is next to zero.
Hipoint 995... the first PCC i owned. Its a dog looking gun. Shoots solid and manages recoil fairly well with that weird stock spring system. There is a little aftermarket support but its hard to find and of course if you are looking to compete with it... 5 rnd mags only are gonna screw ya.
Kriss Vector....thegazelle nailed it. Bulky, the recoil system only works on the full fun models as it was designed to do. Tried one out, would never buy one.
Sub2000. Those that love them LOVE them... me not so much. It just doesn't feel robust enough for me. I'm a big guy... this feels like PCC by playschool.
Some aftermarket support out of the US, and you can get some Mcarbo stuff up here.
Henry Homesteader. Can honestly say I have never shot one. Looks amazing for a rabbit gun and doesn't draw the Libtard "Oooo its black and scarey" vibe.
Hoping I can get one to mess around with in the near future, maybe for nice walks in the woods
If you have between $3000-$5000 get a B&T in your preferred model and configuration, if you have between $2000-$3000 get Raven and DO NOT DRY FIRE (Right Farmerdan!?), Between $1500-2000 get an FX9 and upgrade the recoil system, $1000-1500 get a Ruger and do the small upgrades, under that... dealers choice.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
ACD
I have shot (not owned) almost every PCC on the Canadian market, and I'm one of those "research it to death before buying" kind of guys.
I currently own a Ruger PC Carbine that barely resembles a Ruger any more because its been TANDEMIZED! But even stock with a few key upgrades its a solid performed all round. It needs the bolt & extractor pins, the extractor, and the spring retention c-cup replaced (who makes mild steel and plastic stress point parts, come on Ruger). I ran the Ruger as an IPSC gun last season and it kept up fine. Lots of aftermarket support to tweak it.
I also own an FX9 and once you get it tuned with a new trigger, redo the buffer system (i recommend the "gentle recoil system" that blowback9.com recommends... so smooth), and plop an optic on it, and maybe a comp (see the 9mm comp thread if you dare....) she's good to go fast. Mag issues can be a problem, but magul 17 rnd G9's seem to run great. OEM Glock can be problematic unless you replace the springs, ETS and SGM mags work fine but can have LRBHO issues. I only use the bolt hold open on unloaded starts so the issues around it are minimal. Takes a lot of AR parts, so easy to tweak.
I have shot the three base iterations of the B&T (GHM9, APC9, SPC9) and they are all gorgeous... but not entirely unflawed. Their triggers are pretty gross out of the box and Elftmann is the only one that works in them apparently. Also, getting aftermarket parts is not great...especially at their price point. Two words ASSSS-PENSIVE!
I have also played around with the Raven 9. Great looking platform, well built...but with a few glaring inherent flaws. The firing pins break... A LOT, and you have to deal with Samuel the owner of Lockhart (deal breaker for me). For the price I would assume this to be the top dog... but it falls short. If they ever pull it together, not likely with Samuel, this thing is gonna be solid.
The S&W FPC is an awesome little gun... but mags are an issue. In fact its not lack of aftermarket mags, but insertion issues because of the size of the mags. I have seen issues with mags not going all the way in because of the stupid "sleeve", and that same sleeve is meant to prevent over insertion so if you remove them, BOOM, buried mag mid stage and having to strip it out... Its a range toy at best.
JR Carbine I owned one, I sold it. It's a solid gun, but you cant do a ton of customizing to the recoil system and they off gas a lot from the chamber (face full of soot sucks).
Kodiak K9... I've shot one. It was actually not that bad. A few things to change and upgrade...but not as bad as some of the Kodiak haters will lead you to believe. There is a guy in a Kodiak group on facebook that even figured out how to manipulate the recoil system to eliminate the feeding issues. I might actually pick one up to see if I can make er' fast!
TWN Aero is a good bush gun in the take down, and it comes in different calibers. Great plinker, but that's about it. Again if blows a lot of stuff back at your face, and aftermarket support is next to zero.
Hipoint 995... the first PCC i owned. Its a dog looking gun. Shoots solid and manages recoil fairly well with that weird stock spring system. There is a little aftermarket support but its hard to find and of course if you are looking to compete with it... 5 rnd mags only are gonna screw ya.
Kriss Vector....thegazelle nailed it. Bulky, the recoil system only works on the full fun models as it was designed to do. Tried one out, would never buy one.
Sub2000. Those that love them LOVE them... me not so much. It just doesn't feel robust enough for me. I'm a big guy... this feels like PCC by playschool.
Some aftermarket support out of the US, and you can get some Mcarbo stuff up here.
Henry Homesteader. Can honestly say I have never shot one. Looks amazing for a rabbit gun and doesn't draw the Libtard "Oooo its black and scarey" vibe.
Hoping I can get one to mess around with in the near future, maybe for nice walks in the woods
If you have between $3000-$5000 get a B&T in your preferred model and configuration, if you have between $2000-$3000 get Raven and DO NOT DRY FIRE (Right Farmerdan!?), Between $1500-2000 get an FX9 and upgrade the recoil system, $1000-1500 get a Ruger and do the small upgrades, under that... dealers choice.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
ACD
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Lots of good input from experienced shooters above. It's hard to know what you're going to prefer until you have some mileage behind you.
If you have the chance, see if you can handle and dry fire a few models side by side (shooting them is better, of course). I find the ergonomics, handling and especially the balance to vary a whole lot. For me, most of the NR PCC options we have feel awful in my hands - So much so that I will never own any of those models. Not everyone seems to notice or care about handling, though.
The other obvious point that hasn't come up, but can be a dealbreaker for some, is length of pull (both overall LOP and adjustability). This might be important if you want kids or small statured adults to be able to enjoy shooting the rifle. Most of the NR PCC options have an adjustable LOP stock that can accommodate most shooters, but some are much harder to adjust than others. And the S&W FPC has an unusually long and non-adjustable LOP that you're stuck with.
If you have the chance, see if you can handle and dry fire a few models side by side (shooting them is better, of course). I find the ergonomics, handling and especially the balance to vary a whole lot. For me, most of the NR PCC options we have feel awful in my hands - So much so that I will never own any of those models. Not everyone seems to notice or care about handling, though.
The other obvious point that hasn't come up, but can be a dealbreaker for some, is length of pull (both overall LOP and adjustability). This might be important if you want kids or small statured adults to be able to enjoy shooting the rifle. Most of the NR PCC options have an adjustable LOP stock that can accommodate most shooters, but some are much harder to adjust than others. And the S&W FPC has an unusually long and non-adjustable LOP that you're stuck with.
I can only compare 3 PCC that I have owned and put lead through on a regular basis.
Ruger PCC, its a solid firearm. Heavy and boring.
TNW ASR well this one was a problem child sample of 1. Hot garbage.
LTAC Raven is light, very well built. Break in sucked but after 250rds she has been perfect so far, put a Radian raptor Lt charging handle on it so much fun.
Ruger PCC, its a solid firearm. Heavy and boring.
TNW ASR well this one was a problem child sample of 1. Hot garbage.
LTAC Raven is light, very well built. Break in sucked but after 250rds she has been perfect so far, put a Radian raptor Lt charging handle on it so much fun.
Stuff like this is why I joined CGN just a gold mine of information. Ideally I’d like to be able to try a few before settling on one but it’s been hard finding a decent range in southern Ontario that isn’t wait listed to all hell so I think I’ll be waiting until I make my move out west this year and find a good group of guys/good range to try some of them out. Regardless I appreciate the input helps me narrow down which ones I even want to bother trying out. Thanks again!Here's my 2 cents, and feel free to give back change...
I have shot (not owned) almost every PCC on the Canadian market, and I'm one of those "research it to death before buying" kind of guys.
I currently own a Ruger PC Carbine that barely resembles a Ruger any more because its been TANDEMIZED! But even stock with a few key upgrades its a solid performed all round. It needs the bolt & extractor pins, the extractor, and the spring retention c-cup replaced (who makes mild steel and plastic stress point parts, come on Ruger). I ran the Ruger as an IPSC gun last season and it kept up fine. Lots of aftermarket support to tweak it.
I also own an FX9 and once you get it tuned with a new trigger, redo the buffer system (i recommend the "gentle recoil system" that blowback9.com recommends... so smooth), and plop an optic on it, and maybe a comp (see the 9mm comp thread if you dare....) she's good to go fast. Mag issues can be a problem, but magul 17 rnd G9's seem to run great. OEM Glock can be problematic unless you replace the springs, ETS and SGM mags work fine but can have LRBHO issues. I only use the bolt hold open on unloaded starts so the issues around it are minimal. Takes a lot of AR parts, so easy to tweak.
I have shot the three base iterations of the B&T (GHM9, APC9, SPC9) and they are all gorgeous... but not entirely unflawed. Their triggers are pretty gross out of the box and Elftmann is the only one that works in them apparently. Also, getting aftermarket parts is not great...especially at their price point. Two words ASSSS-PENSIVE!
I have also played around with the Raven 9. Great looking platform, well built...but with a few glaring inherent flaws. The firing pins break... A LOT, and you have to deal with Samuel the owner of Lockhart (deal breaker for me). For the price I would assume this to be the top dog... but it falls short. If they ever pull it together, not likely with Samuel, this thing is gonna be solid.
The S&W FPC is an awesome little gun... but mags are an issue. In fact its not lack of aftermarket mags, but insertion issues because of the size of the mags. I have seen issues with mags not going all the way in because of the stupid "sleeve", and that same sleeve is meant to prevent over insertion so if you remove them, BOOM, buried mag mid stage and having to strip it out... Its a range toy at best.
JR Carbine I owned one, I sold it. It's a solid gun, but you cant do a ton of customizing to the recoil system and they off gas a lot from the chamber (face full of soot sucks).
Kodiak K9... I've shot one. It was actually not that bad. A few things to change and upgrade...but not as bad as some of the Kodiak haters will lead you to believe. There is a guy in a Kodiak group on facebook that even figured out how to manipulate the recoil system to eliminate the feeding issues. I might actually pick one up to see if I can make er' fast!
TWN Aero is a good bush gun in the take down, and it comes in different calibers. Great plinker, but that's about it. Again if blows a lot of stuff back at your face, and aftermarket support is next to zero.
Hipoint 995... the first PCC i owned. Its a dog looking gun. Shoots solid and manages recoil fairly well with that weird stock spring system. There is a little aftermarket support but its hard to find and of course if you are looking to compete with it... 5 rnd mags only are gonna screw ya.
Kriss Vector....thegazelle nailed it. Bulky, the recoil system only works on the full fun models as it was designed to do. Tried one out, would never buy one.
Sub2000. Those that love them LOVE them... me not so much. It just doesn't feel robust enough for me. I'm a big guy... this feels like PCC by playschool.
Some aftermarket support out of the US, and you can get some Mcarbo stuff up here.
Henry Homesteader. Can honestly say I have never shot one. Looks amazing for a rabbit gun and doesn't draw the Libtard "Oooo its black and scarey" vibe.
Hoping I can get one to mess around with in the near future, maybe for nice walks in the woods
If you have between $3000-$5000 get a B&T in your preferred model and configuration, if you have between $2000-$3000 get Raven and DO NOT DRY FIRE (Right Farmerdan!?), Between $1500-2000 get an FX9 and upgrade the recoil system, $1000-1500 get a Ruger and do the small upgrades, under that... dealers choice.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
ACD
Yeah I got the chance to handle one at the Toronto gun show last year and I can definitely say it’s more than tempting going above my budget and getting one of those. Just like their 223 platforms nothing beats them if you have the money for it.
I can certainly say I have not had a smile on my face quite like with shooting the ghm9
Right on, thanks for spreading some good vibes.
If you're still keen to look into this before your move, another option you have is going to a PCC match in your area. Matches I've been to were all open to spectators (probably some aren't). You'd get to see a variety of PCCs at work, and you'd probably have a hard time NOT finding several guys who want to talk your ear off about their rifles.
I agree you need to slam the mag in of the FPC. Mine has gotten better and honestly to me is NBD. Lots of people hot glue that sleeve down to help.Here's my 2 cents, and feel free to give back change...
I have shot (not owned) almost every PCC on the Canadian market, and I'm one of those "research it to death before buying" kind of guys.
I currently own a Ruger PC Carbine that barely resembles a Ruger any more because its been TANDEMIZED! But even stock with a few key upgrades its a solid performed all round. It needs the bolt & extractor pins, the extractor, and the spring retention c-cup replaced (who makes mild steel and plastic stress point parts, come on Ruger). I ran the Ruger as an IPSC gun last season and it kept up fine. Lots of aftermarket support to tweak it.
I also own an FX9 and once you get it tuned with a new trigger, redo the buffer system (i recommend the "gentle recoil system" that blowback9.com recommends... so smooth), and plop an optic on it, and maybe a comp (see the 9mm comp thread if you dare....) she's good to go fast. Mag issues can be a problem, but magul 17 rnd G9's seem to run great. OEM Glock can be problematic unless you replace the springs, ETS and SGM mags work fine but can have LRBHO issues. I only use the bolt hold open on unloaded starts so the issues around it are minimal. Takes a lot of AR parts, so easy to tweak.
I have shot the three base iterations of the B&T (GHM9, APC9, SPC9) and they are all gorgeous... but not entirely unflawed. Their triggers are pretty gross out of the box and Elftmann is the only one that works in them apparently. Also, getting aftermarket parts is not great...especially at their price point. Two words ASSSS-PENSIVE!
I have also played around with the Raven 9. Great looking platform, well built...but with a few glaring inherent flaws. The firing pins break... A LOT, and you have to deal with Samuel the owner of Lockhart (deal breaker for me). For the price I would assume this to be the top dog... but it falls short. If they ever pull it together, not likely with Samuel, this thing is gonna be solid.
The S&W FPC is an awesome little gun... but mags are an issue. In fact its not lack of aftermarket mags, but insertion issues because of the size of the mags. I have seen issues with mags not going all the way in because of the stupid "sleeve", and that same sleeve is meant to prevent over insertion so if you remove them, BOOM, buried mag mid stage and having to strip it out... Its a range toy at best.
JR Carbine I owned one, I sold it. It's a solid gun, but you cant do a ton of customizing to the recoil system and they off gas a lot from the chamber (face full of soot sucks).
Kodiak K9... I've shot one. It was actually not that bad. A few things to change and upgrade...but not as bad as some of the Kodiak haters will lead you to believe. There is a guy in a Kodiak group on facebook that even figured out how to manipulate the recoil system to eliminate the feeding issues. I might actually pick one up to see if I can make er' fast!
TWN Aero is a good bush gun in the take down, and it comes in different calibers. Great plinker, but that's about it. Again if blows a lot of stuff back at your face, and aftermarket support is next to zero.
Hipoint 995... the first PCC i owned. Its a dog looking gun. Shoots solid and manages recoil fairly well with that weird stock spring system. There is a little aftermarket support but its hard to find and of course if you are looking to compete with it... 5 rnd mags only are gonna screw ya.
Kriss Vector....thegazelle nailed it. Bulky, the recoil system only works on the full fun models as it was designed to do. Tried one out, would never buy one.
Sub2000. Those that love them LOVE them... me not so much. It just doesn't feel robust enough for me. I'm a big guy... this feels like PCC by playschool.
Some aftermarket support out of the US, and you can get some Mcarbo stuff up here.
Henry Homesteader. Can honestly say I have never shot one. Looks amazing for a rabbit gun and doesn't draw the Libtard "Oooo its black and scarey" vibe.
Hoping I can get one to mess around with in the near future, maybe for nice walks in the woods
If you have between $3000-$5000 get a B&T in your preferred model and configuration, if you have between $2000-$3000 get Raven and DO NOT DRY FIRE (Right Farmerdan!?), Between $1500-2000 get an FX9 and upgrade the recoil system, $1000-1500 get a Ruger and do the small upgrades, under that... dealers choice.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
ACD
The real solution would be using M&P compact 10 round mags. Those should fit flush. However, I have not seen any around.
I use mine for back-country carry with +P.
