Number 4 T advice.
- Thread starter Longshot
- Start date
My advice would be to post some good pics here of whatever you find and are you're looking at buying, before you part with the cash. There's a lot of folks in this forum who own them, so you should get some great feedback.
Regards,
Badger
Regards,
Badger
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Some of these rules will go for any collector piece, and some are specific to the 4T.
1. Buy quality, and don't be afraid to pay for it. The 4T is not the kind of gun a novice should be 'fixin up', and if the price seems too high today, look back in a year or three and see what they cost. All matching 4Ts were $125 35 years ago, $500 10 years ago,$1100 5 years ago, and a nice one will go in the $3000-$4000 range today. So if you do pay a little too much, not to worry. You'll get it back later.
2. If you get quality, take care of it. We only pay the token amount for this kind of material so we can temporarily possess it. Eventually, it will move to the next owner (unless you get buried with it). The next owner will be thankful you did.
3. Get the scope purged. If you know a FCS tech in the military, he can do this for about the price of a six pack; otherwise pay to have it done. This will prevent the growth of mould inside the lenses. The scopes were good quality, but it has been a number of years since they were in military service and had this done. To check for mould, look through the scope, but focus on the lenses, not the picture through the scope. It will appear as a cauliflower type growth on the inside of the lenses.
4. When you see that 4T that you have always wanted, put away the rose coloured glasses. Learn what to look for to spot a fake. You've bought the books, so put them to use. Don't buy into stories that explain away defects like: The army didn't keep the scopes and rifles together always; if one had to go for repair, it was replaced with another.
5. If all else looks good, I like to guage the condition of the Enfield by how well the barrel rests in the barrel bearing. It should take a nice lift (3-6 pounds lift) to get the barrel off the end of the wood. If pulled left or right, it should return back to the bottom center of the bearing area. Forearms can warp over the years, but just as often are changed and not properly bedded. The bedding is critical if the rifle is expected to deliver it's peal performance.
6. Get all the accessories for it, hopefully with the rifle. The little steel box for the scope is getting to be around the $400 mark these days, as is the transit chest, and the origional scope bracket. The leather sling, in good shape, runs $100-150. And the scope itself will set you back more than $1000.
7. And as Badger Dog said, show us all pics. The Enfield addicts always love to see another example.
1. Buy quality, and don't be afraid to pay for it. The 4T is not the kind of gun a novice should be 'fixin up', and if the price seems too high today, look back in a year or three and see what they cost. All matching 4Ts were $125 35 years ago, $500 10 years ago,$1100 5 years ago, and a nice one will go in the $3000-$4000 range today. So if you do pay a little too much, not to worry. You'll get it back later.
2. If you get quality, take care of it. We only pay the token amount for this kind of material so we can temporarily possess it. Eventually, it will move to the next owner (unless you get buried with it). The next owner will be thankful you did.
3. Get the scope purged. If you know a FCS tech in the military, he can do this for about the price of a six pack; otherwise pay to have it done. This will prevent the growth of mould inside the lenses. The scopes were good quality, but it has been a number of years since they were in military service and had this done. To check for mould, look through the scope, but focus on the lenses, not the picture through the scope. It will appear as a cauliflower type growth on the inside of the lenses.
4. When you see that 4T that you have always wanted, put away the rose coloured glasses. Learn what to look for to spot a fake. You've bought the books, so put them to use. Don't buy into stories that explain away defects like: The army didn't keep the scopes and rifles together always; if one had to go for repair, it was replaced with another.
5. If all else looks good, I like to guage the condition of the Enfield by how well the barrel rests in the barrel bearing. It should take a nice lift (3-6 pounds lift) to get the barrel off the end of the wood. If pulled left or right, it should return back to the bottom center of the bearing area. Forearms can warp over the years, but just as often are changed and not properly bedded. The bedding is critical if the rifle is expected to deliver it's peal performance.
6. Get all the accessories for it, hopefully with the rifle. The little steel box for the scope is getting to be around the $400 mark these days, as is the transit chest, and the origional scope bracket. The leather sling, in good shape, runs $100-150. And the scope itself will set you back more than $1000.
7. And as Badger Dog said, show us all pics. The Enfield addicts always love to see another example.
Make sure that the serial number on the scopes MATCHES the serial number on the flat part of the handgrip. There have been people on this forum trying to sell a #4 Mk 1(T) that is mismatched for the price of a rifle that is matching. Read the books, write down the markings that you expect to see in the appropriate locations and cross check before you buy. After reading Peter Laidler's books on the scope, honestly I don't know if I'd let an FCS tech touch it given that they were probably never trained on that piece of kit. Just my humble opinion.
My numbers do match.
My numbers do match.
Last edited:
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I'm only talking about purging it. The FCS tech who looked after my first scope specialized in instruments/optics. And even he wouldn't touch the mechanisms of the 32 scope because he knew any f-up would be impossible to make right. For instance, he said if I wanted the lense packs out, I would have to do that myself.
Speaking of mismatched rifles and the like, why do guys try to sell any Enfield with any non-regulation scopes (and mounts for that matter) as Ts or even as snipers. I see quite a few guys try to pull that in the exchange forum.....they add a scope to a milsurp and somehow that makes it a sniper rifle. Note to these guys: the thing that makes it a sniper rifle is that a sniper was issued it.
I'm just working off my copy of "An Armourer's Perspective: .303 No. 4(T) Sniper Rifle" Pg 67
"You will notice here and in the later chapter dealing with the rifle that i will make no mention of putting faults right. Like the rifle, repairing telescopes is an art undertaken after long periods of learning and hands on experience after an apprenticeship. It is better to leave the telescope alone, with its faults if you are able to compensate for them in your shooting. The telescope being well worthy of the comment, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"."
It appears that misidentifying a rifle is a sales gimmick to be used on those that haven't done their research. Same as identifying a Norinco M305 as a Springfield M1A or an M14.
"You will notice here and in the later chapter dealing with the rifle that i will make no mention of putting faults right. Like the rifle, repairing telescopes is an art undertaken after long periods of learning and hands on experience after an apprenticeship. It is better to leave the telescope alone, with its faults if you are able to compensate for them in your shooting. The telescope being well worthy of the comment, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"."
It appears that misidentifying a rifle is a sales gimmick to be used on those that haven't done their research. Same as identifying a Norinco M305 as a Springfield M1A or an M14.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I would agree with this to a point. However, to purge a 60 year old scope is preventative maintenance, not a repair. No scope is going to last forever without it. Far better to remove the tiny little screw on the side to have this done, than to have growth inside the scope and have to dissassemble the lenses.
That said, an FCS tech with experience purging instruments meets the definition given by Laidler of a person with hands on experiance and apprenticeship. I would not reccommend that the average gunnut go find a bottle of nitrogen and a regulator and have at it.
I have always had my scopes purged upon purchase.
Below is my LB 4T, also all matching.
PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
WoW! Stencollector, this is one gorgeous T!
PP.
PP.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
f there was a position for one in Suffield, I'm sure that just about any FCS tech in Shilo would jump at the chance. No field unit, nice small maintenance shop, reasonable weather. Compared to Shilo, Suffield is heaven.
Thanks for the complimentson the T, she is a good one.
Behind the T is her little cousin, an in the grease Cno7 trainer, complete with checklist, accessories, and SAL inspectors tag.
My team used this team in Shilos battle of the bulge back in December. It didn't let us down. You can catch a glimpse of her in the bottom right.
Thanks for the complimentson the T, she is a good one.
Behind the T is her little cousin, an in the grease Cno7 trainer, complete with checklist, accessories, and SAL inspectors tag.
My team used this team in Shilos battle of the bulge back in December. It didn't let us down. You can catch a glimpse of her in the bottom right.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The discussion points given already are spot on, although I hesitate even thinking about scope maintenance.
The link below is one fellow's comments on buying No.4T rifles. The reference books are worth reading and knowing. If the seller is honourable he will be willing to let you examine and learn about your purchase.
http://enfields.freestarthost.com/ri10c.htm
The link below is one fellow's comments on buying No.4T rifles. The reference books are worth reading and knowing. If the seller is honourable he will be willing to let you examine and learn about your purchase.
http://enfields.freestarthost.com/ri10c.htm
