Nutters I need Your Help !!!! Emergency !!

I think that teacher needs a talking to.

No sh#t. There are many evils in the world, one of which includes teachers imparting their "uneducated" and holier than thou opinions on those they are duty bound to teach, not indoctrinate. When a "teacher" frames a debate by denoting one side as "evil" then all further discussion has been poisoned and the exercise is moot. What a f#cking a-hole. Learning is wonderful and necessary to having a better informed and more productive society. But when it is biased by people who are immune from discipline then intellectual abuse often follows.

Ok, now that I have vented, perhaps your daughter could use the following suggestions to make her case:

1. Did the the "teacher", and the rest of the class know that "assault rifles" i.e. rifles defined as those that are able to shoot fully automatic (machine gun for lack of a better description for your daughter's class) are banned in Canada?

2. Did the teacher/class know that all firearm licence holders in Canada must?:

a/ takes courses and pay for them themselves on all aspects of firearm handling and safety
b/ pass written, oral, and physical handling of firearm tests before they can submit an application
c/ undergo a police check for any criminal activity that would prevent them from obtaining a licence
d/ include personal references that can and are contacted by phone and asked very personal questions by the RCMP to verify mental and social stability
e/ wait months for approval

3. Did the teacher/class know that there are extremely few crimes committed by licenced firearm owners as a percentage of the population? )

4. Or that most of the gun crime committed in Canada is committed by those who do not adhere to the already present, and as noted above, strict firearm laws of Canada? (facts and links provided by you guys please but I know 2 and 3 to be true) And that therefore banning actually assists criminals yet punishes law abiding citizens?

5. Does the class know that whenever in history a government starts to ban firearms, which is in effect the same as confiscation, oppression often follows? For example, it is a fact that Hitler disarmed the Jews before the Holocaust. There are other examples of these oppressive acts as well (sorry, again, don't have time to get specifics).

Ok submitting this now but further edits to come ;)

6. Canadians can and do use firearms to protect themselves from violent crime. Ian Thompson saved his house and himself from a firebombing because he was armed, legally. Let's not mention he was charged for it too :rolleyes:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
http://w ww.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html

They forgot to add that Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States...you know, the country that helped defeat Nazi Germany and contain Communist Russia?
 
Last edited:
Here's an argument: School is for teaching a broad spectrum of beliefs, ideals and ideologies. All taught in a 'from the outside, looking in' format of non-judgemental objectivism. Public school is not a forum for individuals that are paid to educate to advance their own political views. We have politicians for that.
These are supposed to be teachers.

This is shameful. Can't wait to hear from the 'Holocaust was a Hoax' teachers next.
 
What a stupid thing for a teacher to do. Like really? 13 y.o.'s are going to have the depth of knowledge to intelligently debate the issue? Hell the damn teacher doesn't even comprehend the issue, as evidenced by her satisfaction of having the majority of the class simply stand with her in ignorance, and her dissatisfaction of the 2 non-believers (well ok 1, maybe 2 ;) ).

They wouldn't comprehend the depth and truth contained in the best phrase I've read so far on CGN:

The reason we need AR-15s is the same reason Rosa Parks needed to sit at the front of that bus.
 
So tonight they have to do research and tomorrow they have to have a debate on the topic Ban vs Not ban...
Maybe the teacher needs to learn about "debates" first. It seems to me her mind is already done and it sounds like it will more turn out to be a lynching than a proper debate...

This only on assault rifles no other guns.
I'd speak about the original purpose of the 2nd amendment (including Georges III's tyranny), the Bill of Rights, and the fact that assault weapons are today's muskets. Then move the debate to the failure of gun control (Polytechnic, Dawson,...). A firearm is a firearm, and there is no reason to treat assault rifles any differently than other firearm. Mention that a 20 rounder Mosin M44 is totally legal to own and more efficient. Mention that "spray and pray" is totally inefficient for mass murder. Mention that knives and cars kill more than firearms. Mention that fear of inanimate objects is totally stupid. Then the debate would move about more restriction -> less firearms accessible -> less risk. On which I'd suggest to applies the same restriction to everything which drives Men mad, ###, drugs, alcohol, cars. The utter failure of the Volstead Act and all such prohibitions. Demonstrating my point by pointing he absurdity of my opponent points (and there is many to be used).

To some extend, it seems to me, and this might be a very long shot, that there was a #### wrt. full-auto weapon after the Vietnam war failure. Especially given the "body count" tactics used there and the massacre it triggered..

Anyhow, if you mention any of the above, you will certainly be sent to a re-education/labor camp for "wrongful thinking". The teacher mind is already biased, there is no debate possible. It's a typical case of "let's agree we disagree".
 
There is no debate ... Because the world is a crazy place and i feel safer owning one ! The End !

and they are fun as hell and they are the latest greatest thing in firearms ... You like Iphones ... I like guns :)
 
I never really liked the "assault" terminology as that is something not available to the public and is specifically for military use so does this teacher wish to disarm our military...
Be careful, she might be one of these pacifist having watched "Johnny got his gun" too many times, thinking the world would be a better place without any weapon, without war.

That said, civil should be able to have such rifles. Had Syrians had many of such weapon, Assad might have been thinking twice before running for lifetime presidency, as does Khomeini, Jung-Un, Castro, former president Chavez, etc.
 
This is probably a fool's errand but here goes:


First and foremost it is important to understand that 'assault rifles' and 'assault weapons' are two very different terms that do not refer to the same things at all. 'Assault rifles' is a technical term that denotes fully automatic firearms that the military uses such as the C-8. These firearms have already been essentially banned in Canada since 1977.

'Assault weapons' is a pejorative political terms that came into being in 1988 by Josh Sugarman at the Violence Policy center. The intent of the term is to confuse the non gun owning population into falsely dividing essentially identical firearms into two categories: 'good guns' and 'bad guns'. The goal here is a divide and conquer technique to artificially label certain guns as 'bad' so that political cover can be given to the government to ban them. Once that is complete the label's application is expanded to cover more firearms, with the claim that the previous law "didn't go far enough." The end goal is complete prohibition on all firearms as is essentially the case in the UK and is almost the case in Australia.

Josh Sugarman himself extolled the benefits of using the term assault weapon as "The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."

The confusion of the general public over 'assault weapons' is directly tied to the propaganda that there are distinct characteristics that set assault apart from other firearms and makes them more powerful and or more dangerous. The fact is that so called 'assault weapons' function in exactly the same way as firearms that are not considered assault weapons:

1) They fire semi-automatically, one pull of the trigger fires a single bullet
2) They do not fire a caliber that is any more powerful than traditional 'hunting' firearms - in fact they often shoot far less powerful rounds that would be incapable of hunting larger game such as elk or moose

Because of the fact that there is not real distinction between 'assault weapons' and non 'assault weapons', proponents of the assault weapons bans have had to resort to some legal contortions in order to find a dividing line between 'assault weapons' and non 'assault weapons'. Because there is no functional difference, proponents of bans legislate based purely on cosmetic features of firearms that do not materially alter the performance characteristics of the firearm. The specific cosmetic features selected are not chosen based on any objective criteria, but are instead chosen based on trying to ban as many firearms as possible without including the 'traditional' rifle design.

Traditional rifles typically have a wood stock and simple, clean lines. The design dates from the late 19th century and is what most people think of when they think of 'hunting' rifles. Ergonomics on these firearms was adequate but not optimal, but given the technology of the times was state of the art. Some of the disadvantages of this design:

1) Non adjustable stock which meant one size fits all, smaller or larger people had to make do
2) These firearms fired expensive and very powerful cartridges and often cause pain, causing reduced accuracy due to flinching and increased muzzle rize
3) Wood stocked firearms were subject to water damage and swelling
4) These firearms weighed quite a bit and were tiresome to lug around
5) Barrels on firearms get hot very quickly, often after only a few shots - it was easy to burn oneself on the exposed barrel

In response to this during the 20th century many advancements were made in ergonomics to improve the shooters comfort, safety and accuracy. These include:

1) Light weight, skeletonized firearms with a large amount of plastic. These are often simply black in colour due to the finishing process.
2) Adjustable stocks that allowed the shooter to fit the rifle to their size
3) Smaller caliber cartridges that are cheaper and cause little recoil, reducing pain and increasing enjoyment and accuracy
4) Redesigned stock shape that placed the stock in direct line with the bore of the rifle, reducing muzzle rise and increasing accuracy. This change necessitated the change to a pistol grip due to the placement of the shooter's hands
5) Barrel shrouds and other safety material placed around the barrel to prevent the shooter from burning themselves
6) Improved forward grips that are adjustable in location and improve comfort and accuracy

The actual fire mechanics of the firearms are identical - very little has changed in that regard for over 100 years. These rifles are sometime's termed 'modern' rifles but in reality essentially all of the features were invented by the 1950's and most so called 'assault weapons' use a 60 year old design. The most popular design of modern rifles is the AR-15 rifle.

Why would someone want an AR-15?

1) The ammunition it fires, .223 Remington, is low recoil, cheap, and accurate compared to many more powerful cartridges
2) they have very little recoil and are pleasant to shoot for both men and women alike
3) they are durable and lightweight - their design is over 60 years old and time tested
4) they are very versatile in shooting discipline: long range sharpshooting, three gun matches, informal plinking, etc.
5) a large number of accessories are available that can be mounted such as improved optics, bipods for steady shots from the bench
7) They represent the pinnacle of ergonomic and comfort for the shooter


What about crime involving assault weapons?

Criminal use of assault weapons is very low. Rifles and shotguns do not generally lend themselves to urban criminal use. In general use of all rifles and shotguns in homicide is very low - for example approximately 3% of homicides in the United States are perpetrated using a long gun of any type. And assault weapons make up an much smaller fraction of that. More people are killed by hands and feet or strangulation then are killed by rifles of all types. In terms of crime reduction, assault weapons ban are ineffective.

In fact previous assault weapons bans in the United States have been studied in great details. As John Lott says:
Despite plenty of studies by criminologists and economists, none of the academic criminologists or economists who have studied this have found any benefits from the law. One of the studies was even funded by the Clinton administration. Yet, this study too concluded: "the evidence is not strong enough for us to conclude that there was any meaningful effect (i.e., that the effect was different from zero)." Seven years later, in 2004, the authors of that report (Chris Koper and Jeff Roth) published a follow-up study for the National Institute of Justice together with a fellow criminologist (Dan Woods). Yet again, they could not discern any benefit: "we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence."

..snip...

more may follow....
 
My way..of many i am sure

Bring the precise definition of "Assault Rifle" from a reputable source (please not Wikipedia) and have her quote it, as in....

"The Encyclopedia Britannica defines assault rifle as ".....military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire....Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and FNC, and the German G3."
[Side note: I am amazed that this encyclopedia still exists]

The CCC section 84.1 states "“prohibited firearm” means....(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger..." while the SOR/98-462 schedule 1 which contains former prohibited weapons order 13 bans these exact models by name. [side note: that list is huge and would make for one hell of a shopping trip 1) AK-47, 2)G3, 3)FAL etc etc]

This establishes that assault rifles are already in fact banned. Is the purpose of this debate to have this ban overturned? Teacher would you like to have these un-banned and roaming the streets?"

[Now finally that's a teacher i would agree with]

I am sure there are others who could do a better job of this but that's what i threw together with 20 minutes of Google time while the wife was watching something on TV that involves voting for someone or something. And if I got my section numbers or schedule references wrong i apologize and feel free to correct.
 
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down here. This isn't even about guns, in my opinion. Her teacher just singled her out, and used her influence over the rest of the class to publicly berate your child. This is a Red flag that something else deeper might be going wrong here. You might want to find out if perhaps this is an isolated incident or if your child might have a sordid history with this teacher.

It has happened, in the past, where a teacher with something personal against a particular child has done things like this whereas they may not with any other student.
I had a teacher do things like this to me when I was in Grade 4. She would punish me using unacceptable and unorthodox methods, and I took it cause I was a child who didn't know any better and furthermore did not tell my parents in fear. Years later I told them about it and they were appalled. It would of been grounds for a lawsuit, and her termination. The teacher had something personal against me, and would use every opportunity to single me out and embarrass me in front of the class.

For example, she once got the class to vote, who is the worst kid in the class, or misbehaved, can't quite remember. Maybe I was, but really I was not, either way, unacceptable.

Not saying this is the case here, it may just be an isolated incident over politics, but it's something to think about.

This teacher is def overstepping, I think.
 
I think you need to make a formal complaint against the teacher, the principal, the school, and school board, for pushing an agenda that is clearly at odds with Canadian culture and law. Not to mention they're trying to turn your own kid against you. Heads need to roll, and you are owed a huge apology.
 
Bring the precise definition of "Assault Rifle" from a reputable source (please not Wikipedia) and have her quote it, as in....

"The Encyclopedia Britannica defines assault rifle as ".....military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire....Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and FNC, and the German G3."
[Side note: I am amazed that this encyclopedia still exists]

The CCC section 84.1 states "“prohibited firearm” means....(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger..." while the SOR/98-462 schedule 1 which contains former prohibited weapons order 13 bans these exact models by name. [side note: that list is huge and would make for one hell of a shopping trip 1) AK-47, 2)G3, 3)FAL etc etc]

This establishes that assault rifles are already in fact banned. Is the purpose of this debate to have this ban overturned? Teacher would you like to have these un-banned and roaming the streets?"

[Now finally that's a teacher i would agree with]

I am sure there are others who could do a better job of this but that's what i threw together with 20 minutes of Google time while the wife was watching something on TV that involves voting for someone or something. And if I got my section numbers or schedule references wrong i apologize and feel free to correct.

At the buzzer ??? !!! ... Boom !!! Nothing but net !!!
 
She should just point out that " assault rifles " are already banned , and unless the teacher is suggesting taking them from the armed forces , there really is nothing to debate .
 
They are talking about banning the remaining ar black rifle platform. In semi auto form. Saying they should all be banned. Why does someone need to own a restricted bushmaster for shooting paper ect... Was really hoping for some more well thought out answers not just the teach/ school is retarded. Thanks guys I already know. I'm a Canadian champion shooter I own over 100 guns. I'm not an anti and im not happy about the school but need to help her for Tommorow. I am looking for a few ideas/suggestions that I haven't thought of. Thanks

Assuming you don't go in and shut this down and allow this to go on.

Are they talking about just AR platform or all semi auto?

Firstly one of the reasons the AR was allowed to stay off of the prohib list so that Military service people can maintain their shooting skills while as a civilian. It would be difficult at the very least for the government to allow service personel while acting as a civilian to practice their skills with an AR and not other lawful (and numerously vetted) gun owners.

It's not about need so much as right to property ownership of a lawfully abiding citizen. As it is a AR is difficult for a lawful citizen to obtain and restricted firearms license holders are vetted every day by a database of criminal record check. That property can be confiscated at any time if the owner were to break the law. You don't need a Gold Rolex when a Timex will do the same thing, but your right to lawful property ownership allows you the choice to have items you don't need.

Freedom of choice. A person doesn't need a car when there's public transportation, a person doesn't need a collectors watch when Wal-mart sells cheap crap, a person can choose to be a vegetarian as with protein suppliments they don't need to eat meat. Freedom of choice, religion, and belief is a founding principal of our country and it's being eroded. We may not agree that a person needs something or to practice a type of lifestyle, but we should defend each others right to do so. Just because the topic is about firearms it seems people tend to forget there's lots in life that is not need nor right and they use daily. Ban the right of a lawfully owned tool and within subsiquent generations their own children or grandchildren may not have right to things or lifestyles they don't need.

Shooting as a skill could very well turn into a good job opportunity/career path and banning the AR-15 limits the potential career growth of your daughter. She likely doesn't need to learn French but not knowing it pretty well removes her from working in the government/public sectors.

Banning the AR-15 would force competitive shooters to go stateside to practice their skills. This could very well limit the growth of Olypic level athletes as it would eventually be expanded to other action types.

As a gun owner your daughter has a cleaner criminal record and is daily proven than any other in the class including the teacher. She doesn't need to go through this to own her lawfully obtained property but chooses to do so. As a owner of a restricted firearm she is arguably the most lawfully trustworthy person in the room and is proven so daily.

To ban an object and rid it from the world would require the banning or high level of control of every trade that would be capable of producing even a part of the object. All plumbing in a persons house should be serialized, machinists should be registered and forced to serialize every piece they machine, plumbers and mechanics would have to register and serialize their work, microstamping would be required in every trade on every item and tool, and the list can go on. Banning an object doesn't remove the science or technical ability to make it and once discovered can't be un-invented. Need has nothing to do with it so much as the limitation of scientific and mechanical advancement in a firearms free world.
 
Use some of the statements used by some of the pro gun people
Ar's can be used for hunting
Ar can be fun
Have you seen the video of Katie
h tt p://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/03/meet-katie-francis-the-13-year-old-3-gun-competitor-rising-in-the-ranks-video-2582990.html

h t tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

AR-15 comes from the ArmaLite name and stands for "ArmaLite Rifle". ArmaLite's AR-1, AR-5, and some subsequent models were bolt action rifles, the AR-7 a semi-automatic survival rifle and there are shotguns and pistols whose model numbers include the "AR" prefix

Ar does not stand for Assault rifle
 
Back
Top Bottom