NYPD forces remaining officers using .38 caliber revolver to update sidearms

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Ancient fossils whose careers go all the way back to 1993... imagine!



NYPD forces remaining officers using .38 caliber revolver to update sidearms


By Staff Writer -
December 1, 2017


Smith & Wesson Model 642 .38 Special Revolver. Image credit: Wikimedia Commons.

It’s official – the revolver is dead. Well, at least for the NYPD.

Much like the wooden nightstick and the custodian helmet, the six-shot .38 caliber revolver is no longer on the authorized list of sidearms, marking an end of an era for an iconic firearm that still sees use in the NYPD.

Interestingly enough, only 150 officers still carry Smith & Wesson .38s, all of them with career histories that date back to at least 1993.

The revolver was more than a sidearm, it was a cultural icon. Seen in films like The French Connection and shows such as NYPD Blue, the revolver was the long-running weapon of choice for detectives and seasoned veterans.


The NYPD has set a mandate for the 150 officers to switch to a New York-Approved nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun by summer of 2018, be it a dated S&W 5946, the double action only (DAO) variant of the Sig Sauer P226 or the Glock 17/19 series of handguns, which are plagued by the dangerously heavy 12-pound “New York” safety trigger, which many say is a major player in the NYPD’s reputation for poor marksmanship.

Opting to cut down on negligent discharges in the early-issue years of the Glock pistol by attempting to substitute better training with mechanical tweaking, the NY trigger takes the standard 5-6 lb Glock trigger and doubles the weight of the trigger to around 10-12 pounds- making accurate shooting a nightmare, particularly under stress. These complaints, as well as those concerning lack of training, weapons maintenance woes and the fact that many officers don’t even carry off-duty, have been well-documented over the years.

With such issues plaguing the most recognizable department in America, one has to wonder, wouldn’t revolvers be a good idea?

Not quite. Given that the semiautomatic handgun is the weapon of choice for most criminals, officers who are limited to six shots of the anemic .38 SPL cartridge and slow reload times would find themselves at a disadvantage carrying a dated revolver in the modern world.

According to the New York Daily News, the department-wide push for semiautomatics took place around In 1986, rookie Officer Scott Gadell and his partner chased a gunman (armed with a semi-automatic) into a Queens alley and was fatally shot while he was attempting to reload his revolver.

Despite the bloody circumstances prompting a change over three decades ago, the number of shots fired appears to have decreased for New York’s finest. In 2015, police officers fired 65 rounds in the line of duty the entire year- a large leap from 122 in 2005.




http://www.leoaffairs.com/nypd-forces-remaining-officers-using-38-caliber-revolver-update-sidearms/
 
Wow. I don't agree with this decision to force them to change. Its such a tiny number of officers. And while sure, a
38 is not exactly a fire breathing demon... Id rather see officers having sidearms the are comfortable using, than force them to switch to something they don't want.

Sure in the army we learn to use many systems, and learn an entire new set if you are serving during a weapons transition, as I did, going from FN SLR and SMG over to the C7 and C9. But these are probably cops who are not riding patrols or chasing down suspects and perps... these are probably desk jockeys, specialists who are burried under a mountain of office work and don't have much time to do range time to get to grips with an entirely new type of sidearm. So I question the push to force change on them.

It'd be different if they were SWAT or regularly pulling people over. Or hunting down 3 strike offenders. Get those guys some 9's or .45's, maybe .40cal too. Then again, I'm not a police department administrator!
 
If they want them to switch NYPD should put a 9mm manual safety pistol with a reasonable trigger pull on their approved list. When it comes to pistol shooting I know I'm spoiled and cant shoot well unless the trigger pull is down around 3-4 lbs.
 
150 officers, all of whom started no later than 1993, meaning they all have at minimum 24 years seniority and who likely are not on the front line. Just wait for them to retire.
 
Wow. I don't agree with this decision to force them to change. Its such a tiny number of officers. And while sure, a
38 is not exactly a fire breathing demon... Id rather see officers having sidearms the are comfortable using, than force them to switch to something they don't want.

Sure in the army we learn to use many systems, and learn an entire new set if you are serving during a weapons transition, as I did, going from FN SLR and SMG over to the C7 and C9. But these are probably cops who are not riding patrols or chasing down suspects and perps... these are probably desk jockeys, specialists who are burried under a mountain of office work and don't have much time to do range time to get to grips with an entirely new type of sidearm. So I question the push to force change on them.

It'd be different if they were SWAT or regularly pulling people over. Or hunting down 3 strike offenders. Get those guys some 9's or .45's, maybe .40cal too. Then again, I'm not a police department administrator!

All BS excuses for not learning the tools of the trade. Hit the range on your own time and learn to defend yourself with a vastly superior tool. The fact these officers still think they're relevant or capable speaks to their poor mindset. If these wheel gun cops can shoot their revolvers well then they will have no issues using an auto.

The 642 is a 5 shot airweight snubbie. These are probably very senior detectives and management types who are most unlikely to need their sidearm.

Most cops will never use their pistol, should we arm them all with 642 Airweights and minimal training???

If they want them to switch NYPD should put a 9mm manual safety pistol with a reasonable trigger pull on their approved list. When it comes to pistol shooting I know I'm spoiled and cant shoot well unless the trigger pull is down around 3-4 lbs.

Manual safeties are dumb... End of story. Your inability to shoot with a trigger above 4 lbs is a direct result of your inability to apply the fundamentals.
 
12 lbs is fine if you're talking a sweet S&W K/L/N frame DA pull, but on a typical DAO pistol? Eww.
 
12lb trigger pull in a double action revolver, (which is what they were carrying before they got semi's) is about correct for most "Duty" revolvers. Single action would be in the 2 to 4lb, even as high as 6lb. The problem here is not the gun but a lack of training on the correct use of the double action trigger. I generally shoot all of my revolvers double action only, using single action on occasion. For those who have seen me shoot my revolvers, they will attest that, using double action only, I can easily put all rounds on a standard playing card with 2 or 3 cylinders full at 15 yards. 12lbs is 12lbs if its a revolver or a semi auto.

This bit about a heavy trigger being dangerous is plain stupid, under stress, a 4lb trigger can be "pulled" and you will never believe you pulled it! There was a case years ago in Quebec where a cop had been charged with murder, his defense, and rightly so, was I didn't know I fired, he honestly didn't believe that he had put enough pressure on his cocked single action revolver (A Model 10 Smith and Wesson) to make it fire. Under the stress of the situation the gun literally "Went off".

Scott
 
12lb trigger pull in a double action revolver, (which is what they were carrying before they got semi's) is about correct for most "Duty" revolvers. Single action would be in the 2 to 4lb, even as high as 6lb. The problem here is not the gun but a lack of training on the correct use of the double action trigger. I generally shoot all of my revolvers double action only, using single action on occasion. For those who have seen me shoot my revolvers, they will attest that, using double action only, I can easily put all rounds on a standard playing card with 2 or 3 cylinders full at 15 yards. 12lbs is 12lbs if its a revolver or a semi auto.

This bit about a heavy trigger being dangerous is plain stupid, under stress, a 4lb trigger can be "pulled" and you will never believe you pulled it! There was a case years ago in Quebec where a cop had been charged with murder, his defense, and rightly so, was I didn't know I fired, he honestly didn't believe that he had put enough pressure on his cocked single action revolver (A Model 10 Smith and Wesson) to make it fire. Under the stress of the situation the gun literally "Went off".

Scott

Scott, I'm a revolver fan and I agree but... Training is limited and trigger time is precious. A shooter will shoot better on a lighter trigger in general, and NYPD knows (but politics prevail) after a decade or 2 on semi autos that trigger weight, at a service pistol level, is a software issue, not a hardware issue. Keep your finger off the trigger until it needs to be there. I recall the Quebec incident and iirc Quebec mandated DAO recovers following that incident. I was lucky enough to be on course with a retired NYPD firearms lead instructor years ago, and back then they couldn't even qualify the whole Force annually let alon train them!
 
A buddy of mine got a Glock on the IOP program and could not shoot it at all. He shot his HK DAO better. He never shot any of our Glocks, believing that a Glock was a Glock. One day I asked to try his gun as he was complaining about it so much. It had the NY trigger. I feel bad for the boys in blue there! What a crappy trigger! It’s hard enough to shoot a regular Glock for most folks, let alone a 12lb trigger equipped gun!
 
A buddy of mine got a Glock on the IOP program and could not shoot it at all. He shot his HK DAO better. He never shot any of our Glocks, believing that a Glock was a Glock. One day I asked to try his gun as he was complaining about it so much. It had the NY trigger. I feel bad for the boys in blue there! What a crappy trigger! It’s hard enough to shoot a regular Glock for most folks, let alone a 12lb trigger equipped gun!

They should have just issued them VP70s!
 
A buddy of mine got a Glock on the IOP program and could not shoot it at all. He shot his HK DAO better. He never shot any of our Glocks, believing that a Glock was a Glock. One day I asked to try his gun as he was complaining about it so much. It had the NY trigger. I feel bad for the boys in blue there! What a crappy trigger! It’s hard enough to shoot a regular Glock for most folks, let alone a 12lb trigger equipped gun!

Careful you will offend Fundamental God. You of course nailed it. A relatively light pistol and a heavy trigger pull is no friend of mine. A 53oz revolver and a 12lb trigger pull is another kettle of fish.

Take Care

Bob
 
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