OAL for 303

OEM

OEM

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OK, so I got myself a caliper that reads in thousandths of an inch. I was pretty much going crazy trying to seat my bullets to the same depth, using a Lee Dead Length Bullet seater die. Here's a sampling of measurements:

2.971
2.980 (Yaaay! One right!)
2.9855
2.977
2.980 (Yaay! Another one right!)
2.9785
2.9772
2.987
2.978
2.963
2.973

This was with considerable fiddling! I was under the impression that the bullet seating die should not be moving at all, and yet, it seems like I either have to tighten or loosen the bugger to get close to the desired 2.980 inches. Out of the whole batch, I think I only got those two bang on.

I am following the Lee instructions to the letter. Touch die to shellholder. Move shellholder down, screw in die another 0.25 to 0.5 turns. (I tried both). Adjust shell die by means of knurled knob. No two were exactly the same.

Is it just me, or is there something wrong with the die? Or maybe I should've just stuck to the caliper with 2 decimal places. :confused:

Another thing...how on earth does one keep the decapping pin flush (as per instructions again) with the top of the FL sizing die? I torqued that sucker until I felt any tighter and something was going to break. It still slid up about 0.042 inch above the nut. (yes, these calipers are cool, but maybe too much info eh?)
 
If you are measuring the overall length from base to bullet tip, you are going to get variations. The seater doesn't index off the tip, but rather a point on the ogive. You are likely measuring differences in bullet profiles.
 
Yes, I am measuring from base to bullet tip. Shouldn't all the bullet profiles be the same? They are all the same bullet...Hornady 174Gr FMJs.
 
O.K., first it's rare that loaded bullets will ever be exactly the same length due to irregularities in the individual bullets. the only way to ensure they are all jumping the same distance to the lands is to use a bullet length comparitor which measures cartridge length from base to ogive... not base to tip.
Test a bullet, not round but just a bullet in the seating stem to be sure it's making contact all around the ogive of the bullet and not seating off the tip. test a few.
Have you removed the stem to ensure it's spotless? also i'd check the top of the stem as i've seen tooling marks left from the machining process that i've had to file off before it would work properly. that stem and stem housing has to be really really clean and free of any burrs... anything that could affect it's motion.
The FL sizing die requires alot of torque to hold that bugger in there. after i take mine apart i put the die body in a vise and use a cheater bar with the wrench to torque the collet lock back on to the decapper. it is designed to slide up in case of an obstruction, so you've gotta go hard on it.
EDIT: if your die is locked down properly, measure a few and then just load em all. it should in theory be seating them all from the ogive which is what really matters anyway... dont worry too much about COL base to tip.
 
It seems like every time I read of reloading tool troubles, the word Lee comes up. I have never had a speck of such trouble with RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, etc.
However, I do not make prescission measurements of how deep the bullet is seated. The bullet should be seated deep enough to hold the bullet in the neck of the cartridge. If the cartridge will then work through the magazine and the bolt will close on it, it is the correct length.
Surely you must have something better to do than worry about splitting hairs on how deep the bullet is seated in a 303, which you will likely shoot in either a Lee Enfield or a P14. Both of these rifles were designed for a large variation in seating depths.
 
H4831 said:
It seems like every time I read of reloading tool troubles, the word Lee comes up. I have never had a speck of such trouble with RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, etc.
However, I do not make prescission measurements of how deep the bullet is seated. The bullet should be seated deep enough to hold the bullet in the neck of the cartridge. If the cartridge will then work through the magazine and the bolt will close on it, it is the correct length.
Surely you must have something better to do than worry about splitting hairs on how deep the bullet is seated in a 303, which you will likely shoot in either a Lee Enfield or a P14. Both of these rifles were designed for a large variation in seating depths.
Click to expand...

:D... right to the bone!
it's true about lee... i like their prices but they leave alot to be desired in the way of quality machining. pity for me, im scraping by trying to raise a family and cant afford the good stuff.
 
Hahahaha! Yes...you guys are right, I really DO have lots better to do than to split hairs over how deep a bullet sits. :D For instance, in the absence of a tumbler, I just soaked some brass in a nice concoction of vinegar, salt and dishwashing liquid. Came out clean as can be, as expected. But not as shiny as I wanted. Guess, I just gotta go waste some more time shining em up.

And yes, it goes through a 1942 SMLE that I really shouldn't be agonizing over...after all, it was a free rifle, in terrible condition, that I resurrected with my sparse knowledge. :p

I only measured because I am currently influenced by a buddy shooting his 308 with a Sako TRG and he's constantly agonizing over these split hairs!

Yep, I should just shoot the thing and enjoy myself. If its accurate to 50 m, I'll be happy. Thanks for pulling me down to earth fellas. :)
 
To boot - you're vernier caliper isnt likely repeatable to a thou, and measurements can be affected by the way you hold the case while measuring.
Finally, you're adjusting the die for a crimp - presumably you have a cannelure? If your case lengths are not all the same this may be contributing to the variance. Try backing off the die (no crimp) and see what happens. I use Lee dies (without crimp) and have found them to be extremely repeatable.
 
The reported variation in overall length has nothing to do with a Lee seater being used. Wouldn't matter if it were a micrometer benchrest seating die.
Overall length is relevant when feed from a magazine is being considered.
Consistant bullet seating depth - cartridge head to the point on the ogive which would first contact the leade of the rifling - can be important if superior accuracy is the objective. But measuring from the cartridge base to the tip of the bullet isn't the way to determine this, because rifle seating dies engage a point on the ogive, not the tip.
 
Cosmic, the Lee Dead Length Bullet Seater Die (whatta name!) does not crimp. But I can see the cannelure on the bullet and more or less judge which ones are shorter or longer visually.

Tiriaq, thanks for the info of how the die engages the bullet. I understand now that its really a small difference we're talking about here and no, I'm not looking at superior accuracy, just consistent production of ammo. I've not measured factory ammo yet, but I was just under the impression that when one 'DIY's ammo, it would be much more consistent than factory. No worries, I've learnt another good lesson here, thanks.
 
OEM said:
Yes, I am measuring from base to bullet tip. Shouldn't all the bullet profiles be the same? They are all the same bullet...Hornady 174Gr FMJs.
Click to expand...

The tip of almost every bullet varies a bit because of the process used to manufacture them. Just take a handful of your bullets and measure their overall length, it will vary by probably 0.010" or more through the batch.

As long as the OAL will feed from your magazine and chamber without getting into the lands, you are good to go.

Mark
 
mooboy76 said:
This is definitely true for me. Jeez, I measure the same cartridge 4 times and I'll be lucky to get two the exact same.:)
Click to expand...

I find this is true also. i try my best to make sure the base is squarely planted on the caliper before taking a measurement, but 9 times out of 10 the primer is protruding from the base a few though anyways and you can feel the base wont sit flush on the vernier. for this reason i always measure and trim cases with empty primer pockets.
 
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